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Paladin Tank Help

#1danw15yrPosted 4/2/2013 1:48:22 AM
Hi guys I've just re-subbed after not playing since doing DS heroic back in Cata and I was wondering what has changed And if anyone can give me a few quick pointers to get back into raiding?

From the looks of things haste plays a part in the stat priority now?

But yeah any tips or points in the right direction would be great, I'll probably be 90 in a few days.
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We've decided to stop using the term "work, life balance" as this implies that your life has meaning.
#2Lightning BoltPosted 4/2/2013 2:13:31 AM
Yeah, basically you get hit/expertise capped and then you stack the **** out of haste. It gives you the fastest Holy Power generation so you can use your defensive abilities more often. Gives more dps and healing as well since, well, you're doing everything faster.

Mandatory thingies: Sacred Shield talent, Glyph of the Battle Healer (you spend 100% of your time in Seal of Insight anyways).
Holy Avenger gets a special mention for being way too ****ing fun.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#3danw15yr(Topic Creator)Posted 4/2/2013 2:34:52 AM
So would the priority be something like this?

Stamina > Hit(cap) = Expertise(cap) > Haste > Mastery > Parry > Dodge
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We've decided to stop using the term "work, life balance" as this implies that your life has meaning.
#4Lightning BoltPosted 4/2/2013 3:29:38 AM(edited)
Basically. And by Expertise(cap), you should know that for tanks that's 15%, not 7.5%. And both hit and expertise contribute to spell hit, so once you have 7.5% of each your spells will never miss either.

Also, expertise now only affects dodge first, and then parry, rather than both up to a certain point. I can never phrase this change properly... copypasted from the EJ Prot guide:

Expertise

Like Hit, capping points are now at 7.5% instead of 8%. Works like Hit except instead of reducing our chance of Missing, it reduces an enemy’s chance of Dodging or Parrying our attacks. Up to 7.5% Expertise will reduce and, at 7.5% (which is called "Soft Capping"), completely eliminate the chance of Boss Dodge AND Spell Miss (assuming you're also at 7.5% Hit). Above 7.5% it will reduce and, at 15% (which is called "Hard Capping"), eliminate Boss Parry. In Cata and before, each point of Expertise would reduce both Dodge and Parry at the same time. This is no longer true.


Though I personally prefer stacking more haste after 7.5% since expertise is a bit less valuable. So:

Stamina > Hit(7.5%) > Expertise(7.5%) > Haste > Expertise(15%) > Mastery > Parry > Dodge

But that's just preference. Your way is totally fine.



Stamina is a funny thing though. You should almost never gem for it unless you're desperate for more EH, since the gems are seriously underbudgeted. You get 240 Stam from a gem compared to 360 worth of secondary stats. So, for gems, you get 1.5x as many stat points if you just go for haste or whatever you're prioritizing.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=76639/solid-rivers-heart
http://www.wowhead.com/item=76699/quick-suns-radiance

Trinkets are the other way around though. On trinkets, the Stamina ones give 1.5x as much for the same ilvl.
I main DK so the Mastery one is what I look at.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=94528/soul-barrier
http://www.wowhead.com/item=94516/fortitude-of-the-zandalari

It's the same for Haste though really.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=94526

Notice how much more stamina you get from Soul Barrier than you do secondary stats from the others.
Which basically means that, if you want more health, do so by swapping in Stamina trinkets before gemming. Gemming Stamina is a bit wasteful and you should do so as a last resort.
And seeing as you've tanked before, I'm sure you're aware of Stamina's dubious use. If you don't need more health, then having more is pointless. If you are dying before healers can get to you though then it's invaluable. More preference, ho hum.


And uh... hope I didn't overload you. Need a tl;dr version I suppose.
tl;dr: Yeah your stat priority is fine. Don't use stamina gems though, stamina trinkets are better.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#5danw15yr(Topic Creator)Posted 4/2/2013 3:48:34 AM
Cheers for the help mate, and don't worry you didn't overload me.

I've got some reading to do it seems as tanks now appear to use quite a lot of dps gear.

Currently I'm still in 410 ilvl gear that's just gemed and reforged to look like this;

Stamina > Dodge = Parry > Mastery
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We've decided to stop using the term "work, life balance" as this implies that your life has meaning.
#6danw15yr(Topic Creator)Posted 4/2/2013 5:29:26 AM
Oh sorry to be cheeky and ask another question but whats profs would you say are good?

I'm currently mining and jewlcrafting
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We've decided to stop using the term "work, life balance" as this implies that your life has meaning.
#7MakahtynoPosted 4/2/2013 5:39:50 AM
Stamina > Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (15%) > Haste = Mastery > Parry > Dodge

Expertise at 15% is more important than anything for Prot Paladins.
#8Lightning BoltPosted 4/2/2013 6:12:56 AM(edited)
Ideally you'd want customizable ones. Jewelcrafting is good since you can choose to put the bonus into Haste or whatever else you want. Blacksmithing is the same in that you choose the bonus, and it's less at risk from Blizz possibly adding epic gems in later patches.

Mining is just Stam though and not the most you can get (and if you want a nice offspec, Stam isn't ideal for Ret/Holy). Leatherworking gives the most Stam since it gives a hefty bracer enchant, and there's no real alternative enchantment for Stam on bracers. Then again, Leatherworking might potentially be outshined if they release new bracer enchants in later patches...

I'd say
Leatherworking>Blacksmithing>Jewelcrafting>Alchemy>Inscription=Enchanting>Mining>Herbalism>Tailoring>Skinning

Engineering is nifty and I use it on my DK tank, but then if my belt explodes I can totally negate that with AMS and it ends up being a performance boost. The Synapse Springs are cool for dps, but iffy for tanking (they give a low amount of avoidance, but that's hardly dependable). Hard to place this in the > chain though. Goblin Glider (parachute with an engine if you're not familiar) saved us a wipe just last night, but a lot of the time it can really bite you.

Makahtyno posted...
Expertise at 15% is more important than anything for Prot Paladins.


It's dubious, really. You've got 3 HoPo generators, and only one of them can be parried. ShoR still provides the defensive bonus if it gets parried so that's not problematic.
Once you've got the spell hit caps, only white swings, CS, and ShoR off the top of my head even benefit from further expertise. Those 2500 extra stat points could, instead of giving 7.5% more of those, give 6% more of everything via haste.

Then again, if you're trying to build up 3 HoPo for a Triple Puncture, and your CS gets parried leaving you at 2, you're gonna have a bad time. Consistency is definitely valuable, and it's definitely not a matter of "get better at managing HoPo and you don't need consistency", because that's just asinine. So people can do as they like, either way works. Just so long as they know the reasons for why they do what they do. :p
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev
#9danw15yr(Topic Creator)Posted 4/2/2013 6:12:04 AM
Ok I was kind of using my Mining/JC combo to make loads of gold on top of raiding

Do you think I would do better picking up BS or LW then?
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We've decided to stop using the term "work, life balance" as this implies that your life has meaning.
#10Lightning BoltPosted 4/2/2013 6:14:36 AM
Performance-wise, of course they'd be better.
Is it worth losing your money maker for an extra couple hundred Stam/few extra hundred Haste? /shrug
Depends on how much you want to min/max. They're really not that big a deal.
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One day dude, I'm just gonna get off the bus, and I'm gonna run in the woods and never come back, and when I come back I'm gonna be the knife master!
-The Rev