This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Is ret the worst dps spec in the game?

#31Orestes417Posted 4/15/2013 3:14:34 AM(edited)
At a time we can guarantee everyone was near the gear level specified on Noxxic for the range the difference was around 3k. The fact that it's skewed upward is to be expected given some people would be wearing partial and full heroic ilvl. At the moment the numbers fall between the full 522 and full BiS ilvl numbers, which is as one would expect it to be.
---
When Hollywood runs out of Indians, only the Indians will know.
#32Egxamer1Posted 4/15/2013 9:00:55 AM
As a decently geared ret pally i will post this week's upcoming WoL from my guild 25 man and my adventures in the lfr. Just to provide some actual data.
Also give me an insight into how other ret pallies are doing. Sometimes im still guessing on certain talents to use for certain fights.
---
I am slaying all the bosses, I am winning all the dailies, I am doing all the dps, I am dating Mila Kunis, I am killing all the arenas, I belief in my Smelf.
#33jackster26Posted 4/15/2013 9:27:23 AM
Hak posted...
They're miles off. If you want an example, compare what is ACTUALLY seen in-game;

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/

with what Noxxic says;

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic

(Both links were in this topic, but apparently comparing them is beyond you).

Now look at what Noxxic says are the top "realistic" numbers from a Fire Mage - 94k dps. Now, let's look at what people are ACTUALLY doing with a Fire Mage in raids accordnig to a site that actually captures live raid data... oh, 184k dps? Twice as much? How is that possible? Oh... it's because Noxxic only uses a single target sim, with pointless pauses in their sim detail to produce numbers which mean nothing.


Maybe, cause, you know, when you are trying to assign a number to something you need a benchmark. The benchmark when measuring DPS is single target, self buffed.

AoE, you cant measure it accurately as there are so many variables. You cant assign a number to it. Variables...

Noxxics numbers are correct if you are not a moron and can understand the concept of a benchmark and removing variables to be able to give an accurate measurement.

Single target, self buffed. Simple concept.
---
^( '.' )^
#34aLINKinthechainPosted 4/15/2013 12:48:25 PM
jackster26 posted...
Hak posted...
They're miles off. If you want an example, compare what is ACTUALLY seen in-game;

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/

with what Noxxic says;

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic

(Both links were in this topic, but apparently comparing them is beyond you).

Now look at what Noxxic says are the top "realistic" numbers from a Fire Mage - 94k dps. Now, let's look at what people are ACTUALLY doing with a Fire Mage in raids accordnig to a site that actually captures live raid data... oh, 184k dps? Twice as much? How is that possible? Oh... it's because Noxxic only uses a single target sim, with pointless pauses in their sim detail to produce numbers which mean nothing.


Maybe, cause, you know, when you are trying to assign a number to something you need a benchmark. The benchmark when measuring DPS is single target, self buffed.

AoE, you cant measure it accurately as there are so many variables. You cant assign a number to it. Variables...

Noxxics numbers are correct if you are not a moron and can understand the concept of a benchmark and removing variables to be able to give an accurate measurement.

Single target, self buffed. Simple concept.


This, it's equivalent to self testing on a dummy. Of course you're going to put out better numbers in a raid scenario.
---
GT: thatKevinkid
the first man on the moon was soma, and he got there by yorick jumping.
#35ChocoboMog123Posted 4/15/2013 1:46:53 PM
Orestes417 posted...
The combined parses fail to take into account gear levels, and by their very nature parses are going to be skewed towards the higher end of the spectrum. If you'd bothered to read the site correctly noxxic lists 213.9k as the high end of the spectrum for fire mages, 94k is wearing full normal mode gear from last tier.

AND if you bother to read the damn raid parses correctly, guess where fire mages were before 5.2 hit and mages were in 496ish gear? Here let me help you http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/#1000000000000000000000000000000000


That's funny, my Lock has been pulling 150k-200k this tier since it started. I was in full normal mode and ranking top 50, or at least top 100 on every fight (represented on raidbots).

The problem with raidbots isn't the sample, it's the bias. Players play whatever spec they think is best, not every spec equally. Even so, it's still a FAR better benchmark than a "realistic" sim. In fact, I'd say a standard Patchwerk style sim gives more useful information, considering you can emulate that type of gameplay.

Noxxic is terrible. The "standard benchmark" hasn't ever been a good representation of anything useful. Please shut up unless you know what you're talking about.
---
"You're sorely underestimating the power of nostalgia goggles." - adjl
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110218.gif
#36Demon SlicerPosted 4/15/2013 1:48:53 PM
ChocoboMog123 posted...
Orestes417 posted...
The combined parses fail to take into account gear levels, and by their very nature parses are going to be skewed towards the higher end of the spectrum. If you'd bothered to read the site correctly noxxic lists 213.9k as the high end of the spectrum for fire mages, 94k is wearing full normal mode gear from last tier.

AND if you bother to read the damn raid parses correctly, guess where fire mages were before 5.2 hit and mages were in 496ish gear? Here let me help you http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/#1000000000000000000000000000000000


That's funny, my Lock has been pulling 150k-200k this tier since it started. I was in full normal mode and ranking top 50, or at least top 100 on every fight (represented on raidbots).

The problem with raidbots isn't the sample, it's the bias. Players play whatever spec they think is best, not every spec equally. Even so, it's still a FAR better benchmark than a "realistic" sim. In fact, I'd say a standard Patchwerk style sim gives more useful information, considering you can emulate that type of gameplay.

Noxxic is terrible. The "standard benchmark" hasn't ever been a good representation of anything useful. Please shut up unless you know what you're talking about.


This.
---
GT: Makes It Rayne
"Incendite tenebras mundi" - "Liberi Fatali"
#37Orestes417Posted 4/15/2013 1:55:43 PM(edited)
Any idiot can pull 200k burst on a lock stacking cds on opening. There's several youtube videos of it. You haven't been sustaining 200k single target in T14 though. Period. Does not happen. Not for Demo, not for Afflic and not for Destro.
---
When Hollywood runs out of Indians, only the Indians will know.
#38TreGoodaPosted 4/15/2013 1:56:17 PM
jackster26 posted...
Hak posted...
They're miles off. If you want an example, compare what is ACTUALLY seen in-game;

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/

with what Noxxic says;

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic

(Both links were in this topic, but apparently comparing them is beyond you).

Now look at what Noxxic says are the top "realistic" numbers from a Fire Mage - 94k dps. Now, let's look at what people are ACTUALLY doing with a Fire Mage in raids accordnig to a site that actually captures live raid data... oh, 184k dps? Twice as much? How is that possible? Oh... it's because Noxxic only uses a single target sim, with pointless pauses in their sim detail to produce numbers which mean nothing.


Maybe, cause, you know, when you are trying to assign a number to something you need a benchmark. The benchmark when measuring DPS is single target, self buffed.

AoE, you cant measure it accurately as there are so many variables. You cant assign a number to it. Variables...

Noxxics numbers are correct if you are not a moron and can understand the concept of a benchmark and removing variables to be able to give an accurate measurement.

Single target, self buffed. Simple concept.



What you said about AOE is true, however, that accounts for people boasting in raid chat more than anything else.

I see these guys doing 130k+ for the entire dungeon (mostly AOE on trash) and doing like 55-60k on the boss (most people are pretty close in the important fights).

So, it's all rather meaningless in game if people are geared accordingly. DPS for every class is pretty well balanced.
---
"Get a life! What? I'm a gamer, I have tons of lives."
#39ChocoboMog123Posted 4/15/2013 4:04:55 PM
Orestes417 posted...
Any idiot can pull 200k burst on a lock stacking cds on opening. There's several youtube videos of it. You haven't been sustaining 200k single target in T14 though. Period. Does not happen. Not for Demo, not for Afflic and not for Destro.


And how many single target Patchwerk fights are there this tier?
---
"You're sorely underestimating the power of nostalgia goggles." - adjl
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110218.gif
#40im_boredPosted 4/15/2013 5:39:19 PM(edited)
90th or 80th percentile would probably be the best measures as they tone down the outlier (very overly inflated damage do to lucky procs, or whatever) parses but still measure players who play their spec well.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/p90/
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/p80/

What this shows is that Retribution is roughly mid to slightly below middle of the pack, which is where they should be. Possibly a slight buff, but more realistically other specs need to be brought down.

It's not a bad place for Ret to be parsing, if you are a skilled player playing with equally skilled players you will do well. If you are a skilled player playing with average people you will be higher on the DPS meters. If you suck then it doesn't really matter what you play.
---
I'm not your bro, bro.