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Im scared for titan.

#31Orestes417Posted 4/21/2013 4:35:09 PM
Gee who'd have thought an 8 year old game would have peaked and started to decline at some point. It's almost like it's predictable or something. Repeat the phrase Correlation does not imply causation till you comprehend it.
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#32ryanell666Posted 4/21/2013 6:16:58 PM(edited)
Orestes417 posted...
Gee who'd have thought an 8 year old game would have peaked and started to decline at some point. It's almost like it's predictable or something. Repeat the phrase Correlation does not imply causation till you comprehend it.


That's a lame cop out and you know it.

Age of a game is meaningless, otherwise why is there multiple versions, chapters, DLC..... Heck let's talk real sports games like hockey or baseball, billion dollar industry in and outside their major league counterparts; you'd figure the whole idea would've gone down in flames since so few can play like a pro.

Add the fact that MMORPGs are suppose to be persistent with infinite possibilities; if WoW was "all that", it would be bigger than facebook by now....

Correlation fallacy, besides the fact you only know about it from another gameFA-Qer, it doesn't apply here.

So going by your half-ass implication of a fallacy stolen from another, people aren't allowed to say they stopped going to a restaurant because the food has gotten worse over the years? Despite reports of poor food storage practices, or that the servers are unprofessional? Or basically the price doesn't justify the cost of the experience?

How is that any different than (respectively) bad game design? dealing with unprofessional, baddies with bad attitude because they think they deserve being carried? Or simply asking themselves, there are better things to do than waste my subscription money on this place?

and yes, there are even restaurants going on 50 years old that stood the test of time by holding to one's own value systems. So, again, age is not an issue here as well.

Just catering to the lowest denominator tends to only give short term results.
#33sonicpNiNe9Posted 4/21/2013 7:45:00 PM
OP just quite WoW and go play Everquest 2 (or 1 if you want to multibox yourself to max level where everyone plays). Community is far more polite and mature. You don't have any 8 year old kids in vent ever, and if you do they are usually guild members kids. The game devs may be a bit cheaper (i.e. in eq2 you have sometimes 4 different versions of the same instance), but there is TONS more content in EQ and EQ2 than probably all other MMO's combined. I decided not to care for Titan and am instead anticipating EQ3. Mainstream mmo's (WoW) will always be polluted with D-bags and casual content. games like EQ won't because it's only the hardcores that stay.
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#34ATiRadeonHDPosted 4/21/2013 8:40:48 PM
ryanell666 posted...
ATiRadeonHD posted...
Catering to casual players is what SELLS WoW, and keeps people subscribed.



Point of FACT, "catering to the casuals/baddies" being good for business is a myth! It's a flat out lie!


That isn't a fact.

WoW peaked at 12 million+ subs well into Wrath of the Lich King - the expansion that gave everyone epics, reduced raid sizes, allowed paladins to tank, introduced an EZ mode class that starts at level 55, caused massive gold inflation, EASY dungeon grinding for reputation and epic items, "heroic" dungeons that required no CC, etc, etc, etc.
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#35webbc99Posted 4/21/2013 10:51:43 PM
ATiRadeonHD posted...
ryanell666 posted...
ATiRadeonHD posted...
Catering to casual players is what SELLS WoW, and keeps people subscribed.



Point of FACT, "catering to the casuals/baddies" being good for business is a myth! It's a flat out lie!


That isn't a fact.

WoW peaked at 12 million+ subs well into Wrath of the Lich King - the expansion that gave everyone epics, reduced raid sizes, allowed paladins to tank, introduced an EZ mode class that starts at level 55, caused massive gold inflation, EASY dungeon grinding for reputation and epic items, "heroic" dungeons that required no CC, etc, etc, etc.


As stated previously, this was the bait and switch. All of the casuals were attracted during wrath, but it was too soon for the hardcores to up and leave. The patch after ulduar was the start, and most people just stayed until Lk was down because of the lore. Cata actually launched I'm the right direction, but blizzard saw the casuals whine and leave so got caught in a muddle and just decided to make everything easy.

Tbf MoP is a better expansion than Cata, but only because Blizzard are churning content out faster. The game as a whole is a lot worse off. However I don't think WoW will have any dramatic sub losses any time soon. But it's clear the direction of the game has changed in the ToC patch.
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#36darthjerro(Topic Creator)Posted 4/22/2013 1:14:18 AM
webbc99 posted...
ATiRadeonHD posted...
ryanell666 posted...
ATiRadeonHD posted...
Catering to casual players is what SELLS WoW, and keeps people subscribed.



Point of FACT, "catering to the casuals/baddies" being good for business is a myth! It's a flat out lie!


That isn't a fact.

WoW peaked at 12 million+ subs well into Wrath of the Lich King - the expansion that gave everyone epics, reduced raid sizes, allowed paladins to tank, introduced an EZ mode class that starts at level 55, caused massive gold inflation, EASY dungeon grinding for reputation and epic items, "heroic" dungeons that required no CC, etc, etc, etc.


As stated previously, this was the bait and switch. All of the casuals were attracted during wrath, but it was too soon for the hardcores to up and leave. The patch after ulduar was the start, and most people just stayed until Lk was down because of the lore. Cata actually launched I'm the right direction, but blizzard saw the casuals whine and leave so got caught in a muddle and just decided to make everything easy.

Tbf MoP is a better expansion than Cata, but only because Blizzard are churning content out faster. The game as a whole is a lot worse off. However I don't think WoW will have any dramatic sub losses any time soon. But it's clear the direction of the game has changed in the ToC patch.


So true.
Wrath was the first time in years i had time away from the game.Months on end at one stage.
Why?
Aoe faceroll IS BORING!!!!
My prot warrior used to rock, stance dancing , tanking 3 mobs without aoe, then wrath came, and it became " Tank, gather the room, aoe tank them all "....BOOORING..

Challenge is what makes us tick, striving to be the best we can.
I beat the lich king, then quit. Brought cata.
Cata was AWESOME for the first 3 months...dungeons where a challenge, it felt a little like bc again..Then the casual tears flowed, then wow once again died.

Its the last time i played it.

Being an avid diablo fan, i brought d3.....BLIZZARD WOWAFIED DIABLO...fail..

So yea, ill wait a while when titan hits, just incase blizzard pulls another wotlk or diablo 3..
#37ElaeusPosted 4/22/2013 1:37:39 AM
Cata was an amazing expansion if you were competent in the end game. Anyone that disagrees is either insecure about their skill, not good enough to be in good guilds, or just trying to look cool on the internet.

And no- lack of time is never an excuse. Not everyone is expected to be on top level and finish everything in two weeks. Patches dragged long enough for anyone half competent to get a dip into heroic loot especially speaking in the case of 4.2 and 4.3.
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#38webbc99Posted 4/22/2013 4:51:42 AM
Elaeus posted...
Cata was an amazing expansion if you were competent in the end game. Anyone that disagrees is either insecure about their skill, not good enough to be in good guilds, or just trying to look cool on the internet.

And no- lack of time is never an excuse. Not everyone is expected to be on top level and finish everything in two weeks. Patches dragged long enough for anyone half competent to get a dip into heroic loot especially speaking in the case of 4.2 and 4.3.


Cata launch was great, but Firelands was a) a terrible raid, and b) a terrible patch in general. DS was also pretty poor as far as raids go, with Spine + Madness being some of the worst final encounters in the game, and also introduced LFR, and went on for ages.

On a positive note, I was pleased to see some tweets from GC saying that they are aware they need to bring the social aspect back to WoW, as that is what's missing imo. Too much anonymity and queuing through menus nowadays.
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#39game freakozoidPosted 4/22/2013 5:27:13 AM
The reason subs fell did not have anything to do with the casualization of the game. If it did then subs would have fallen a lot longer quicker after the release of Wrath. People saying that don't really know what they are talking about and are just trying to put a causation where there really isn't one.

Subs fell because of lack of content. Minus one mini raid, we went an entire year at the end of Lich King with absolutely no content. That is why subs fell. When Cata launched it had a lot of content at first but it was made harder. Thus people had more trouble getting into raids and thus the content dried up for them extremely quickly as there wasn't really anything new outside of that to do. Coupled with the fact that we then went about four months until more content was added which was just two rehashed dungeons (with only one of them really being different) and then there was another three month dry spell. Even for raiders there was about 7 months between content cycles and thus Cata saw a huge loss in numbers. To make it worse after that there was about five months until new content and then that was it for this expansion. Blizzard spent so much time remaking the leveling zones for new players that they really didn't have any left over time making content for the end game which has always been the main part of the game. Lack of content is what cost them subscribers.

We don't know exactly what MoPs playing figures are now. Could be higher, could be equal, could be less. However, for an eight year old game for them to be maintaining anywhere near the same numbers is extremely impressive.


Bottom line is if the difficulty of the content was truly what cost them subscribers then Blizzard would make the content harder. They are a business afterall. However, that wasn't what cost them subscribers and it was infact the lack of content which is why they are putting so much resources into remedying that now.


And to finish it all off, fun fact: Welfare epics actually started in Burning Crusade which while having some difficult raids, saw considerably more raiders than Vanilla WoW.
#40halomonkey1_3_5Posted 4/22/2013 5:39:09 AM
If Blizzard made the game as casual as classic/TBC was they'd drop half their subs in one expansion

Cataclysm added more casual content than any other expansion and it lost 3 million subs because it was too casual so people jumped ship, which is proof that people want the increased difficulty that WotLK and MoP have brought to WoW.
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