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Early WoR "easy"?

#1Concerta_Posted 4/3/2010 3:50:52 PM
I've read more than once on this board that the early WoR easy. I was just wondering how one arrives at this conclusion. Every time I've played this game, the early WoR has been one of the most challenging areas of the game.

1. Phunbaba, the tentacles, and Dullahan, are among the most challenging bosses in the game, and all have killed me more than once. These guys are harder to kill than later bosses such as the Behemoth, Owzer's painting, Hidon, and most of the dragons. The harder (multi-party) areas towards the end of the WOR are areas that you can prepare for; better equipment is available, as is access to grinding turf. Some of the other later dungeons, such as Cyan's dream, the ancient castle, and the fanatics' tower, are much longer than earlier dungeons, but the only one of these areas the provides a challenge greater than the early WoR is Cyan's dream, because of Wrexsoul. Magimaster can be frustrating, but if you're going to actually kill him, you're doing it by being cheap and killing one very easy dragon on the way up.

2. If it's your first time playing or if you didn't plan ahead, you've got Edgar and Setzer, who probably don't even know Cure2 yet, and Sabin at his weakest point in the game in damage output relative to other characters.

3. Random encounters up to and along the serpent trench are among the worst in the game to get through if Celes isn't buffed.

4. After you get the airship, it's significantly harder to kill Phubaba than it is to get Cyan, which is not good because Cyan is terrible unless you exploit a narrow loophole in the game's code. After that, it's still probably easier to rescue Shadow/Relm from the Behemoth.

5. The early WoR is definitely harder than most of the WoB. The hardest things in the WoB are the cheap bosses that always stand a chance of killing you, i.e. Ultros and the one that you fight on the waterfall. The floating continent seems worse than it is.

Thank you.
#2MeepleLardiclePosted 4/3/2010 4:21:09 PM
Reasons the early WoR is considered easy:

-The enemies really suck. They do crap damage and have little to no variety until Darril's Tomb, which is when you have a full party, 2 of those PCs having a minimal level of offense being "Adequate", and Celes has had enough time to catch up by then anyway.
-For the section before Sabin joins, Celes with Genji Glove + 2 Adequate Weapons gets through this section no problem, especially if she uses Morning Star, cause then she can go Back Row. Worst case scenario, you equip a Black Belt as well, and play defensively. Its also a REALLY short treck to Tzen, so running from all randoms will have little negative impact in the long run.
-Branching from that, look how many enemies are weak to Fire during this section; its absurd. Sabin's Fire Dance really murders entire formations effortlessly.
-The nature of the Tentacle Fight is one that a fully built up Celes doesn't fair much better than a sub-optimal one. The way you win this fight is equipping Running Shoes. No, I'm not kidding; with Running Shoes, they're just hitting you with weak physicals and Poison spells (which are single target), and a rare Bio. Equip Wall Rings on Sabin/Celes, and all they have are that pathetic physical.
-To say Phunbaba is harder than Mt. Zozo is pretty absurd, especially if you include Storm Dragon into the mix. Worth noting that if Terra has over 1000 HP and knows Osmose, you can't realistically lose to Phunbaba. She laughs off all his magic due to Morph, Solar Plex isn't strong enough (especially with Back Row)< and she WILL know Drain which with Morph, WILL heal back any damage he does. Any turn she gets with above 1000 HP = Another Fire 2/Bio to the face. Terra is really well suited to solo that fight, DESPITE being unable to equip Relics.
-For the FIRST Phunbaba fight, you do realize that Wall Rings mitigate most of the threat in that fight immediately, right? And if you got Sabin, you probably have a Drainer; Celes + Drainer + Wall Ring = Auto Win, provided Celes has above 1000 HP (which I wouldn't assume is the case, but isn't unlikely either; Green Berets come in handy here of course!) Hell, she might not even need Wall Ring here; Phunbaba just doesn't have the offense to be scary enough, outside of Blow Fish.

Dullahan is about the legitimate threat here who can't be cheesed out, and even he gets mostly walled by Runic; in fact, he's got a rather meager MP score, so just MP Nuking him works wonders, if just slugfesting him isn't hard. Dullahan is also like the 3rd and last fight Runic is a regularly suggested strategy on!

No, the Early WoR is easy. Its easier than half the WoB, that's for sure. Magitek Factory is harder on grounds that enemies have high defense, and things like Trappers with L5 Doom or ProtoArmors exist.
Sealed Gate as well, cause of Ings scary Lifeshaver, and Zombones can inflict Zombie. Early in that dungeon, you may run into a Lich hurling a surprise Fire 3 in your face.
Floating Continent...if you even try to argue the early WoR is harder than that, you really have issues.

In fact, the Phantom Forest can be tougher the early WoR cause back luck can get you hit with stuff like Halt and Ghosts have Non-negligible offense if you're not careful. This is more threatening than those Lunaris and Ospreys who just sort of sit there, deal crap damage to Celes.
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#3wpotPosted 4/3/2010 4:29:30 PM
If you know what you're doing the early WOR can be run through fairly easily in comparison to the late WOB, specifically the IAF and Floating Continent.

1. The Tentacles seem nasty...until you realize that Running Shoes and Poison completely own them. Dullahan is...respectable, but Runic and/or Wall Rings neuter him fairly effectively. Phunbaba can be a little annoying with two characters, but if you equip a Wall Ring on Sabin and Celes it's just a matter of time. Now Atma Weapon....THERE'S a boss without an easy counter (outside of leveling up, which owns anything)! Air Force can be mean, too.

2. Celes (and later on) Edgar aren't bad at all - they can take care of most anything. Setzer always has Slots for those willing to take two minutes to figure out the timing, and Sabin always does at least passable damage.

3. If they're a problem you could completely skip them with a Chocobo...and they really aren't that bad.

4. ? Phunbaba is a chump with a full squad, and you're neglecting Gau...among other things.

5. I disagree. Neither is hard at regular levels, and if you do some sort of challenge you'll almost always have the most problems with the Floating Continent/etc.
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#4MightyOraclePosted 4/3/2010 5:19:06 PM
The early WoR is difficult, sure, but only when compared to the rest of the WoR. Objectively speaking, it's rather easy.

As was already said by the above two posters, the WoB is more difficult.
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#5MeepleLardiclePosted 4/3/2010 5:34:00 PM
I dunno; I'd place Kefka's Tower, Fanatics Tower, Phoenix Cave and Ancient Castle above the early WoR pretty quickly.

It does partially depend on how much cheap **** you're throwing at the enemies of course. If you're spamming Ultima, nothing is safe. But I honestly cannot respect a section of the game where 95% of the random encounters die to a single Fire Dance...heck, I think Sabin can pull it off without Earrings or many Esper Boosts. Being frailish and weak to Fire makes it a ludicrously easy section.
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#6Concerta_(Topic Creator)Posted 4/3/2010 5:39:26 PM
"-The nature of the Tentacle Fight is one that a fully built up Celes doesn't fair much better than a sub-optimal one. The way you win this fight is equipping Running Shoes. No, I'm not kidding; with Running Shoes, they're just hitting you with weak physicals and Poison spells (which are single target), and a rare Bio. Equip Wall Rings on Sabin/Celes, and all they have are that pathetic physical."

This is an exploit that doesn't occur to most players. If it occurs to a player during the fight before he dies, then it doesn't really help him, either. Obviously the game is easy when you know all of the exploits.


"-To say Phunbaba is harder than Mt. Zozo is pretty absurd, especially if you include Storm Dragon into the mix. Worth noting that if Terra has over 1000 HP and knows Osmose, you can't realistically lose to Phunbaba. She laughs off all his magic due to Morph, Solar Plex isn't strong enough (especially with Back Row)< and she WILL know Drain which with Morph, WILL heal back any damage he does. Any turn she gets with above 1000 HP = Another Fire 2/Bio to the face. Terra is really well suited to solo that fight, DESPITE being unable to equip Relics."

It's not absurd at all. Nothing on Mt. Zozo is capable of killing you except for the Storm Dragon, which, being the hardest dragon, is clearly something to be saved for later. Being right next to a save point, the fact that he kills your party does not impede your progress in the game.


"-For the FIRST Phunbaba fight, you do realize that Wall Rings mitigate most of the threat in that fight immediately, right? And if you got Sabin, you probably have a Drainer; Celes + Drainer + Wall Ring = Auto Win, provided Celes has above 1000 HP (which I wouldn't assume is the case, but isn't unlikely either; Green Berets come in handy here of course!) Hell, she might not even need Wall Ring here; Phunbaba just doesn't have the offense to be scary enough, outside of Blow Fish."


Doesn't Phunbaba [b]ABSORB[/i] lightning? Wall rings only mitigate a part of his damage, and all of the damage you mitigate heals him. The only way to cure your party is to cast Reflect on Phunbaba and cure yourself. Terra also cannot wear a wall ring in that fight.

Oh, it is certainly not a given for Celes to have over 1000 hp, nor is it a given for the player to even have green berets handy if he sold them when he saw that their defense was weak and did not carefully weigh the pros and cons of "raises hp a little" vs. the increase in defense of a gold helm.



"Dullahan is about the legitimate threat here who can't be cheesed out, and even he gets mostly walled by Runic; in fact, he's got a rather meager MP score, so just MP Nuking him works wonders, if just slugfesting him isn't hard. Dullahan is also like the 3rd and last fight Runic is a regularly suggested strategy on!"

If you're going at this from the perspective of someone who reads strategies online, you're missing my point. Dullahan is actually probably the easiest of the three pre-airship WoR bosses because runic is a strategy that might actually occur to a first-time player and doesn't require you to re-load your file and buy expensive relics.
#7Concerta_(Topic Creator)Posted 4/3/2010 5:40:44 PM
"No, the Early WoR is easy. Its easier than half the WoB, that's for sure. Magitek Factory is harder on grounds that enemies have high defense, and things like Trappers with L5 Doom or ProtoArmors exist."

Bolt2/Ramuh and Flash destroy all of these with great ease. These are the default strategies that require no thought by the player about exploiting the enemies' weaknesses. Magitek factory is cake.

"Sealed Gate as well, cause of Ings scary Lifeshaver, and Zombones can inflict Zombie. Early in tht dungeon, you may run into a Lich hurling a surprise Fire 3 in your face."

I've never had the fire3 happen, but lifeshaver is a problem...luckily Terra has or is in the process of learning her level 2's, to make short work of the enemies there. And then there's always Life to one-shot anything.

"Floating Continent...if you even try to argue the early WoR is harder than that, you really have isues."

Well, if you can use game-breaking tactics to support your position, so can I. Runic > atma weapon. Other than that, it's simple enough to just run from most of the enemies, or is there one here that doesn't allow you to run? Shadow is very powerful here if you have enough Skeans and such. The FC is something that you plan for, bringing your three best characters plus one other powerful character. In the early WoR, you just have to go with the flow, taking what's given to you.
#8trancer1Posted 4/3/2010 5:43:58 PM
Dude, you come on here and piss & moan about the WoR being hard, then complain about the tactics people provide to make it easy?

WTF?

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#9Concerta_(Topic Creator)Posted 4/3/2010 5:51:16 PM
"Dude, you come on here and piss & moan about the WoR being hard, then complain about the tactics people provide to make it easy?

WTF?"

I'm aware of the strategies, but they're about as relevant to a discussion as the fact that the late WoR can be incredibly easy because of the moogle charm. Further, using wall rings against phunbaba is not an effective strategy, Terra cannot equip a wall ring, and none of my characters have much over 1000 hp vs. phunbaba.
#10Concerta_(Topic Creator)Posted 4/3/2010 5:55:37 PM
"I dunno; I'd place Kefka's Tower, Fanatics Tower, Phoenix Cave and Ancient Castle above the early WoR pretty quickly."

Three essentially bossless dungeons are harder than the hardest string of bosses in the game? Really? You aren't even going to go to any of these places without a good stock of tinctures and potions, and bringing your best team for the job.

Bosses in this game are much more threatening than random encounters, especially in areas that obviously require preparation such as the phoenix cave. The fanatics' tower has the easiest dragon fight and a boss that requires a precise strategy to beat. You either use the strategy and win, or you don't and you die.