What's the minimum number of monsters needed to beat the game?

#11BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/27/2012 3:47:09 PM
Liches seem to be stronger than HiSlimes when using Flare, but at only 3 uses, you simply don't have enough to last the entire fight against Creator. Shame. In fact there's a few monsters that might actually be viable choices for Creator (having a Ki-Rin for healing perhaps) if it weren't for the uses of their skills being relatively low.

If Creator uses his revival move to heal himself halfway through the fight (presumably to full HP) you pretty much lose. No monster other than HiSlime has TWO non-elemental moves that do plenty of damage, so you'll be running out of attack uses. EXCEPT if you're confused... I've gotten extremely lucky and saw an Athalot hit Creator with Flare while confused even when he had 0 uses of Flare left (confusion doesn't take item uses into account?). Also, Repent is really damn annoying when it hits.

Beam using monsters like Beholders and Mazin don't seem to be viable. Beam itself just doesn't do enough damage (only like 130). DarkRoses are like a slightly weaker HiSlime without the P-Blast. Still good HP though. Scarab's Acid has 10 uses and does nice damage to Creator, but their relatively low HP is a liability. I've seen 3 Darkroses and a Tiamat (who contributed little) beat Creator, so it's certainly possible with other monsters than simply HiSlimes. Now I'm wondering if it can be done without draining attacks.

HAHAH, did it! At least in the battle simulator. With 3 Scarabs and a Titan of all things. Titans might not be top-level monsters, but their HP matches a Ki-Rin's, their Sword outdamages Horn slightly and their Cure works just fine. It's still stupidly luck based compared to a group of HiSlimes or DarkRoses as you have to have the Scarabs burn almost all their uses of acid with the Titan using Sword until Creator actually starts attacking. Left and Right need to deal relatively low damage and Repent also needs to not hit (or hit only 1 of the Scarabs) and your Titan needs to heal the Scarabs in case they take a Flare. Now to try this out in an actual game.
#12_KazPosted 1/28/2012 9:48:09 AM
BareknuckleRoo posted...
...after typing this I realize it's impossible to get top-tier monsters before Ashura due to only the Fiend2 meat bumping you up to max level. Damn.

I thought FFL1 monsters used an "XP" system, which is why some guides show that you are able to grind top-tier monsters on Floor 1.

Also, how accurate is the Tower Reversed battle sim? I really remembered Ashura's multi-hitting arm attacks reaming my teams every time. (And I agree, out of all the wacky variety of attacks that rely on a ridiculous range of variables, the Drain attacks always get to do ludicrous damage. And they heal you to boot.)

BareknuckleRoo posted...
No monster other than HiSlime has TWO non-elemental moves that do plenty of damage, so you'll be running out of attack uses. EXCEPT if you're confused... I've gotten extremely lucky and saw an Athalot hit Creator with Flare while confused even when he had 0 uses of Flare left (confusion doesn't take item uses into account?).

Makes sense. The confusion bit was exploited in FFL2 to some humorous effects; the Hatamoto samurai enemies when confused use Punch... and attack they shouldn't even have. Considering equipped martial arts do more damage when you have less of them, the Hataomoto was using a 0-use Punch attack for 10,000+ damage. But like you said, very luck-based.
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#13BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/28/2012 3:03:28 PM
"I thought FFL1 monsters used an "XP" system, which is why some guides show that you are able to grind top-tier monsters on Floor 1."

It's honestly been too long since I've been to the end of the game with a monster in FFL1, that's how little experience with monsters in FFL1 I have. :( I'm just going on what the meat transformations FAQ says.

"Also, how accurate is the Tower Reversed battle sim? I really remembered Ashura's multi-hitting arm attacks reaming my teams every time."

I think the battle damage formulas are accurate, whereas the enemy behavior appears to be less random than the actual GB game. For instance, when I tried with 4 Scarabs I always ended up with Do Nothing x2 -> Left -> Right -> Repent -> Flare, even with many runs. It's not a perfect analogue for the actual game, but it's good enough as a theoretical simulator.
#14_KazPosted 1/30/2012 11:23:10 AM
BareknuckleRoo posted...
"I'm just going on what the meat transformations FAQ says.

Jump to "Choose wererat as party leader."
There is a Floor-1 monster sequence that you fight; if you can get the required meat you can have your entire party become SALAMND. (A wererat and four goblins can go through the sequence.) At that "level", your monsters cannot regress into a weaker tier (1~3). (So you can have Rakashas and Puddings at that point.)
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Kaz Fact: Welcome to Version 2.0!
#15DragonAtmaPosted 2/10/2012 6:17:11 AM
HiSlime's attacks aren't ridiculously strong; they merely ignore the target's defense.... and the creator has 200 defense. Try them on the wimpy monsters from the first world and they'll do no more damage than they do against the creator!
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#16crazyisgoodPosted 2/19/2012 5:12:41 PM
it is possible
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#17crazyisgoodPosted 2/20/2012 2:07:36 AM
hi again
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#18BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 2/21/2012 2:43:20 PM
"HiSlime's attacks aren't ridiculously strong; they merely ignore the target's defense.... and the creator has 200 defense. Try them on the wimpy monsters from the first world and they'll do no more damage than they do against the creator!"

The point was more that relative to other monsters, HiSlimes are capable of consistently causing ridiculous amounts of damage, with plenty of charges to boot thanks to both Melt and P-Blast.

it is possible

hi again


wow that is just so helpful i mean wow it blows my mind
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