Why do monsters have to suck?

#1BareknuckleRooPosted 11/4/2012 6:59:40 PM
Why is it monsters feel so much weaker here than in FFL2? If you know how, and eat a very, very specific series of meat, you can get the second-highest level of monster in the first world, but without using a guide, it seems monsters feel way weaker. I'm playing a Mutant/Mon x 3 game and I've only just gotten monsters with a multi-hit attack after beating Byak-Ko, but Squirt and Acid don't hit for nearly as much as my Mutant does with his spells (not counting Flare!) We're talking best a monster hits for is half as much. :(

I'm thinking it might be cause Magi in FFL2 lets you buff up your monsters, but I still remember monsters feeling more useful in that 4 Monster run I did... maybe it was because NPC chars are handy to carry them along...
#2_KazPosted 11/5/2012 7:25:25 PM
And why are humans so overpowered. And why do Mutants have only four slots.
Despite its charm of an unbalanced combat system amidst the shattered series of mini-worlds, this was a very rough-around-the-edges title.

I'm taking the easy route with "monsters sucked because it was a poorly executed, though innovative, gimmick."
---
Fighter: "Mr Pibb", "Dr Pepper".. I'm onto you..
Kaz Fact: Welcome to Version 2.0!
#3DamageIncPosted 11/6/2012 3:12:34 AM
Yeah I second Kaz here -- this is one of my favorite games of all times, but that's because of the atmosphere, not the game engine itself. The battle system is horribly unbalanced in a variety of ways :)

I'd say the roughness of the title probably contributed to the things I like so much about it. Most of the dialogue is terse, and the environment is so sparse that your imagination is left to fill in the blanks.
---
OMG YOU CAN UNEQUIP ITEMS
FRABJOUS DAY
#4BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 11/6/2012 5:53:21 AM
DamageInc posted...
the environment is so sparse that your imagination is left to fill in the blanks.


Yeah, that's one of the reasons I prefer its atmosphere to FFL2; the environments get progressively sinister as you work your way up the tower to the point where it's downright oppressive. There's a genuine need to explore and your goal is always "get to the top" from the get-go, with sidetracking every 5 floors to unlock the next door. Sure, the world's feel like your average elemental theming, but they're at least fun to explore, and when you figure out WHY the worlds are like that it makes sense in a horrible, sick to your stomach way.

FFL2's environments are more stale, and you feel sort of 'herded' to the final world. Why are the doors locked by specific amounts of Magi? How do people get around normally then (especially with single-town worlds)? Teleporting? At least in FFL, it's explicitly stated the tower used to be unlocked (presumably every time someone tries to work their way up it) so it's less unusual seeing other people in the tower at least. By the time you reach the Central Shrine, you've seen it before, but you end up there out of coincidence more than anything, and it's conveniently the spot where you descend to stop the world's shaking by... beating up the machines apparently guarding the controls? Uh, 'kay.

There's also little enjoyment in backtracking/exploring or simply levelling due to the annoying as $%^@ screen shaking that's meant to get you motivated to beat the game, but really, did they have to make a change that's that annoying?
#5DragonAtmaPosted 11/9/2012 7:30:11 AM
Humans are overpowered because the gold that fuels their stat potions keeps going up, while the costs of them stays static. At the beginning, for example, it takes seven and a half battles to buy a single Strong, while late in the game a single battle can give you enough cash to buy eight Strongs!

Unfortunately, you'd have to rebalance the game -- with coding and everything -- to fix that. Strong and Agility would need multiple levels (like HP200/400/600) -- say Strong30/Strong60/Strong99 -- and they'd have to be set to to do NOTHING if your stat is too high. While we're at it, HP200 and/or HP600 need some adjusting so HP600 isn't pre-obsolete.
---
Nagas on a plane! ^_^
#6In2DaBMagePosted 11/10/2012 8:59:28 AM(edited)
Later on they decline, yeah, but Hi-Slimes and DarkRoses have the always useful drainage attacks which are worth something.

Good to see you around Kaz.
---
I have no witty quote to put here like any other sig, so heres a picture of the Fonz:
http://lovablelabelsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/fonz1.jpg
#7BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 11/21/2012 4:56:38 PM
I'm finally trying to beat the game with 4 monsters without using a monster evolution guide. Basically, I'm manually keeping track of what meat changes what monster into what. A bit tedious, but it's actually kind of satisfying figuring it out myself.

I think I underestimated how well monsters can handle the main game. They're nowhere near the power of humans of mutants due to how difficult levelling is due to relying on specific meat drops, but a team of 4 Oni is pretty easy to get early game, and King Sword and Gen-Bu both have little in the way of HP.

I know how to get up to Geckos + Red Bones, just beat Gen-Bu, team's currently a Werewolf, Gecko and 2 P-Frogs. Slimes should be readily available now, just need to figure out how to get a few for Sei-Ryu (although I think if I can even just get a team of 4 Rhinos I might be able to Horn him to death). The real problem with monsters is their actually good attacks generally only have 10 uses, so you have to conserve sparingly and run from non-boss fights when you're headed to kill a boss.

It's definitely much slower going than FFL2 is as you start with much more powerful monsters in the second game as well as have NPCs with ludicrously high stats able to carry your party at several points in the game.
#8DamageIncPosted 11/23/2012 3:13:20 AM
Yeah, I find the 'lack of good attacks' problem to be the real reason it can be tedious to run a 4 monster party in the last half of the game.
---
OMG YOU CAN UNEQUIP ITEMS
FRABJOUS DAY
#9BareknuckleRoo(Topic Creator)Posted 11/27/2012 6:25:19 PM
Big Eye meat seems to be really helpful:

From Phantom -> Raven -> Catwoman !!!

Catwomen are really handy; they've got the durability of Werewolves with O-Weapon and enough weapon uses with Nail + Tusk. Speaking of which, nearly got a gameover with a party of Ravens to 3 werewolves, they hit hard, and my team refused to run until two people died. :(

It's hard, but it's not as bad as I thought; the frustrating part is the amount of experimentation it takes to find a good meat 'path' to get to better monsters because you can't rely on NPCs to carry you ever like in FFL2.
#10zoogelioPosted 11/29/2012 12:53:30 AM
^
Heh. The wonderful thing about FFL1 & FFL2... how many games can you talk about 'meat paths'?