Training Arthur: Is it really worth it?

#1BintaPosted 11/4/2009 10:25:26 PM
Apparently a high-level promoted Arthur is one of the better units in the game. But is it really worth it, because it's an immense pain in the ass to train him.
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#2ehow22Posted 11/5/2009 7:12:01 PM
It all depends on your playstyle. Alot of people alternate between lv 10 and lv 20 promo games. If promoted at lv 10, Arthur sucks while Pelle is Awesome. But when promoted at lv 20, Arthur's awesome and Pelle sucks. Arthur learns magic lol
#3RetroResetPosted 11/6/2009 11:04:16 AM
I've always found it to be more of a hassle, but then again I have also always promoted at level 10.
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#4Princess AnriPosted 11/11/2009 1:18:13 PM
Immense pain? Come on. Just level him close to 20 in the Elliot battle. All you have to do is leave Arthur one square away and attack him over and over with a power spear. Elliot won't attack unless you get close. When you're done, you'll have the best Paladin in the game.
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With great power, comes great responsibility.
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#5ScienceOfMythPosted 11/11/2009 4:52:03 PM
Arthur is totally not worth it. Whats he start out with..9 HP? Less? About the same as Anri. And there is just no need to level your characters high enough (20/10+) to where Arthur starts to get good

Also, hes not *that* much better than other characters since his magic is useless late game..so hes just a quality attacker/tank. And you won't really be hurting for those probably, although Arthur IS one of the best (along with Musashi, Guntz, Bleu, Max)

I mean, I personally recommend leveling him up once if you play through the game multiple times but if you just want a "normal" playthrough Arthur represents a big detour.
#6Princess AnriPosted 11/11/2009 9:05:49 PM

From: ScienceOfMyth | #005
Arthur is totally not worth it. Whats he start out with..9 HP? Less? About the same as Anri. And there is just no need to level your characters high enough (20/10+) to where Arthur starts to get good




Don't be talking **** about Anri. And of course there is no reason to do it. There's no reason to play the game at all. But if you want the best knight/paladin, it's Arthur. And like I said before he is so easy to level in the Elliot battle so it is hard to say it's not "worth" it.
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With great power, comes great responsibility.
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#7LokishadePosted 11/14/2009 11:30:11 AM
The centaurions are all useful in the game except for Earnest , for me he was the least important of the knights.

For me it goes like this:

Use Mae for her incredible defense.

Use Pelle for his incredible HP.

Use Arthur for his inc.. i mean very good speed ( and good attack range using his spells after a LOT! of grinding).

Use Vankar for his incredible(again!) strength.

In the end it all depends on your play style really.
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#8BobofAbyssPosted 11/15/2009 4:18:25 PM
You didn't say anything about Ken, Lokishade. I was gonna use Ken originally but I heard he was not very good so I switched to Earnest, and to be honest, Earnest is my least important unit at the moment I'm on (second to last battle).
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"Your actions have meaning only if they hold true to your ideals."- Ramza Beoulve
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#9lastjusticePosted 11/16/2009 11:17:30 AM
With the lvl ups being somewhat random, you can sometimes end up with characters being radically better than others. While the game has trends as certain characters tend lean toward certain stats they seem catch up if they are really lacking after abit. Like the game has fail safe that trips if they get to a certain lvl and dont have a proper number of stats as Ive seen guys just explode in stats over course of 5 lvls. I use Ken, as I find hes more than good enough if you ve promote at 20, but I max out everyone typically.

As for Anri, shes a mage. Those are the easiest characters to lvl up. She can always land damage and hit multiple foes. I personally think shes one of the best overall packages when it comes to mages, and you get her early on. Her defense sky rockets upon promotion and she access to freeze 4 as well as bolt 2 which is nice for softening several targets and racking up exp. Plus she looks cool in her black witch outfit.

Outside of Jogurt none of the force members are a waste of time. Especially if you lvl them to 20 and promote em. I find the game scales for you to put off promotions anyways. Theres no reason to rush them since you take a stat dive and if theres no new weapons you cant upgrade to why bother? All that happens is you lose a bunch of stats and you cant lvl up since the bad guys are worth little experience if you do it really early on. Which you can easily be promoted by chapter 2 if you re pushing for it as I used to do when I was first playing.


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#10ScienceOfMythPosted 11/17/2009 6:56:39 AM
OK, first off if you are comparing Arthur to other Centaurs then you're really talking 20/20 stats. OF COURSE hes going to have the best stats but, its honestly not by much.

Unless I'm misremembering, you get 1 Valkyrie and 1 Devil Lance. There's no way a cahracter with any other spear/lance would have enough attack to make your Force if you have other 20/20 characters on it

Further, the only 4 relevant stats are really HP, Defense, and Attack, Move, and the hidden critical stat

Here are the 20/20 "expected values". In almost literally every case your character will be within +/- 4 or this value

GUNTZ
40 ATK
85 DEF
58 HP
10% Crit

Note that even considering attacks that bypass defense and attack his "low" HP, Guntz is still one of the best defensive characters. Only 20/20 Bleu/Adam are outright superior. Most people agree that Guntz earns a spot on the Force for power leveled teams

Here's Arthur for comparison
41 ATK
60 DEF
78 HP
10% Crit

It is really dubious whether 20 HP is better than 15 Def. Even if you face Mages that routinely used Freeze 4 on your characters it still would not be clear-cut in Arthur's favor. Apart from that, all he really has over Guntz is a movement advantage.

Now here's KEN
38 ATK
54 DEF
68 HP
8%

Basically, an average 20/20 Ken is the about the same as the worst possible 20/20 Arthur. To me, that is still more than good enough considering the fact that Arthur is terrible until the very end of his lifecycle. Now, sure you could just spend a while leveling Arthur up BUT..20/20s are broken at the END of the game..there is zero point in using them in earlier battles unless you want to trivialize the entire game even more.

Here are the other spear users
MAE
35 ATK, 52 DEF, 72 HP, 7 Crit
PELLE
33 ATK, 56 DEF, 65 HP, 6 Crit
VANKAR
32 ATK, 51 DEF, 70 HP, 5 Crit
EARNEST
36 ATK, 49 DEF, 66 HP, 5 Crit
KOKICHI
34 ATK, 47 DEF, 63 HP, 6 Crit

Note that Crit is not +/-4 but more like +/- 1 or 2 and I don't think you can figure out what it is

At any rate, unless you heavily value Kokichi's flying power, whats clear is that Arthur and Guntz are a cut above but that Ken is a capable substitute for Arthur and you won't really notice enough of a dropoff using Mae to matter. The rest taper off in offense except Earnest who is a notch below the rest defensively

Also Arthurs total attack is 76 with the Valkyrie/Devil Lance vs Guntz's 75.

Bleu is 75, Adam, 70 (but much better defensively), Musashi is 74 with the Katana but he has 31% critical rate, Luke is 78 with Atlas, Gort 73; and Zylo is 80. Max gets 82 with Chaos Breaker and don't forget Balbaroy is 75, Amon 73 if you give one of them the Chaos Breaker instead.

So you can see that in the attack department you have an abundance of options. Its entirely possible you might opt to give Guntz the Valkyrie and then not use any other Lancers since the Devil Lance DOES make you freeze every so often.

Is Arthur one of the 12 most powerful characters at 20/20? Yes. Is he part of an "optimal" force? Probably but not necessarily. Do you lose anything without him? Other than the bravado factor of being able to say you have him, NO

So, other than just to say you did it, there is NO POINT WHATSOEVER to level up Arthur unless you think having a terrible character to nursemaid all game makes the game more of a "challenge"