Dragon Warrior
Anyway to go through this game without spending time grinding?
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Kaskos posted... If you do things in order and don't get the Erdrick's Armor until you've found the clue in Cantln, then would the Magic Armor not be worth buying in Rimuldar? I've always bought it, combined it with either Fairy Water or Repel, and stayed out of the inn as long as possible. With Goldmen around, it doesn't take that long to buy it, and you need the few levels you gain earning the gold for it to make it to Cantlin. My thought was just what you said, that the fewer trips to the inn the quicker and therefore the better. So buy the Magic Armor, then travel to Hauksness; cast repel when needed, save your healing MPs, and level off of Wyverns. I would assume some of the weapons and armor in this game were included because the intention is that it would take you a while to find clues about what to do next. On a first playthrough, before ever visiting Cantlin and not knowing where Erdrick's Armor is, the Magic Armor is likely a worthwhile purchase since you'll have it for a few levels and the health regen and spell damage reduction would come in handy. However, having beaten the game and knowing where the items are, there isn't a reason to get it. In a typical playthrough (not using the chest glitch), I have enough gold for the Full Plate by level 9 or 10. I'll then fight south of Rimuldar until I earn enough gold for the Silver Shield, which is usually by late level 12 or early level 13. Once I have the gold, I'll venture to Cantlin for the Shield and will usually pick up the Token on the way back. At level 13 and with the Silver Shield, the Axe Knight is quite manageable, so he comes next. At this point, it should be apparent why the Magic Armor doesn't make much sense. It simply slows the gold collection that goes to the shield and potentially adds time before getting Erdrick's Armor. After all, the Magic Armor makes no difference in the Axe Knight fight, whereas the Silver Shield is significant (improves the odds at level 13 from around 40% to 60% according the the Battle Simulator). With the Armor and Silver Shield, a trip to Charlock to pick up Erdrick's Sword is fairly simple. Just run from everything and keep HP at max. Barring some incredibly bad luck, you shouldn't have any problem at level 13. Blaargv131 posted... I'm always skeptical of any plan that includes killing Goldmen. Given the exp is ultimately the limiting factor, it's hard to justify spending time fighting something that doesn't give you any. As described above, killing Goldmen is the only way to earn enough gold to buy the Silver Shield by level 12/13. Fighting higher EXP enemies will add at least another level worth of time to collect that much gold. Since the Silver Shield/Erdrick's Armor let you survive tougher monsters at least one level sooner (e.g. fighting Knights safely at level 14), I think it makes sense to make gold the priority. It will save you time by letting you level in a higher EXP zone earlier. Of course, this is a moot point if you want to use the chest glitch. In that case, you're right, fighting Goldmen doesn't make sense. --- - The Admiral | |
Of course, this is a moot point if you want to use the chest glitch. In that case, you're right, fighting Goldmen doesn't make sense. Technically, fighting Goldmen will get you gold faster than the glitch does (as long as you're already fighting them and not specifically hunting them). The general idea with the exploit is to get enough gold to get the best efficient equipment very early on, not a surplus on gold to be used later. The only difference is that with the exploit you don't have to fight Goldmen until level 12 to have enough money by level 13. And yeah, the Magic Armor is totally useless in any kind of efficiency sense. On average you'll only get healed about 2 HP between battles, the defense is no better, and you aren't really fighting enemies that use HURT. All this on top of what The Admiral already eloquently said about getting the Silver Shield sooner. | |
And yeah, the Magic Armor is totally useless in any kind of efficiency sense. On average you'll only get healed about 2 HP between battles, the defense is no better, and you aren't really fighting enemies that use HURT. All this on top of what The Admiral already eloquently said about getting the Silver Shield sooner. I always get this but skip the Full Plate. Also, hasn't it since been proven that the magic armor protects you a bit from enemy magic? --- DXF Games' Hasslevania 2: This Space for Rent http://del_duio.sitesled.com/Hasslevania2/Hasslevania2.html | |
Yes, it reduces Hurt/Hurtmore damage by 1/3. Unfortunately, by the time you get it, none of the monsters in the Rimuldar region use Hurt spells anymore. This protection would have been great in the Mountain Cave with all the Warlocks / Poltergeists / Drakeemas, but isn't all that valuable when it actually comes along. --- - The Admiral | |
That's an interesting take. I had long thought that the best strategy for saving up for the Silver Shield was to fight Cantlin enemies, which meant that the Goldman gold is for the Magic Armor, but I see the logic in The Admiral's approach. --- Dust bunnies, hair clogs, and carpet stains, oh my! | |
I used to use that approach a long time ago also, but the enemies around Cantlin really don't make much sense to use for grinding until level 17 or 18, and even at that level they are quite tough before you have the Silver Shield. Having the Silver Shield by level 13 or 14 really saves a huge amount of time in the long run. As far as getting the Magic Armor, it isn't the extra 4700G that wastes time as much as it is not having the Full Plate sooner. Assuming your goal is to go from Half Plate to Magic Armor, you are stuck fighting enemies in zone 7 (Wolf / Warlock / Metal Scorpion) until level 13, as the zone 8 foes (Wolflord / Goldmen / Wraith) inflict way too much damage before then (they still use the high-damage equation). With the Full Plate, you can safely fight in zone 8 at level 10 (although 11 is still probably preferred). Having to fight weaker foes, and in a group that doesn't include the Goldmen, does add a significant amount of grinding time that isn't needed. The best bet long term is to start fighting in the Mountain Cave at level 6 once you have the Chain Mail, and then use this area to grind until level 10 as you save gold for the Broad Sword, Large Shield, and Half Plate (in that order), as well as saving the required 3000 for the Full Plate. You should have this amount right around level 10 if you keep collecting the 130G chest from the cave. Once you can buy the Full Plate, head over to Rimuldar and stay there until you have enough for the Silver Shield. --- - The Admiral | |
I agree the Cantlin enemies don't make much sense before Healmore, but they aren't impossible with Sleep, and the ~50exp per battle is nice. As far as the Magic Armor, I always buy it then fight around Hauksness, casting Repel to heal my HP when it gets too low. Really interested in how much time is wasted between the Admiral's strategy and everyone else's. Some of you guys are really trying to get this game down to a science. Cool stuff. --- "Well maybe then it might be too late!" - the future conditional pluperfect subjunctive. | |
Yes, in large thanks to Ryan8bit, Meteorstrike, akira slime, and a few others, the amount of information on this game has improved significantly over the past few years. Now that the precise calculations are known, there isn't as much guess work around many of these things anymore. The most important new piece of information is the connection between stats and name, followed closely by the damage equations. Knowing how to neutralize an enemy or at what point you can shave a round off a battle, on average, is quite valuable for planning a strategy that saves times. Exactly how much time can be saved or lost based on bad strategy is a good question. Just anecdotally, it certainly seems like I spent many more hours on this game when I was younger. I finished this game again this past weekend and did it quite easily within 2 days. I don't think it even took me 6 hours, although I didn't time it precisely. When I was younger, a playthrough would take me a week or so, and I had a lot more time to dedicate to gaming. This might fall into the realm of something one of the simulators can figure, but I'd be curious how much time bad purchase or grinding strategy might affect someone who knows this game well. I wouldn't be surprised it it was was a couple hours in total, which may show it wastes 25-35% more time. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was far less. Even some things that are known wastes of time, like buying the Hand Axe, don't really waste that much time. --- - The Admiral | |
Kaskos posted... I agree the Cantlin enemies don't make much sense before Healmore, but they aren't impossible with Sleep, and the ~50exp per battle is nice. As far as the Magic Armor, I always buy it then fight around Hauksness, casting Repel to heal my HP when it gets too low. Cantlin has a few things going against it. 1. There is no immediately available 1 in 8 tile (hill or desert). The best you can do for encounters is 1 in 16 in the forest, which will slow you down a few seconds per encounter. 2. Enemy attacks are not yet neutralized. This means enemies will do at least double the damage on average, and you'll have to waste more time traveling to the inn. 3. Even when attacks are neutralized, these are some vicious enemies. Starwyverns will either tie you up with their own HEALMORE spell, or you casting STOPSPELL on them. Despite armor to deflect it, Green Dragon's breath and Wizard's HURTMORE will do more damage than some of the more straight forward attackers in other zones. Also, I don't think the REPEL tactic makes any sense. The spell lasts for 128 steps, which with the Magic Armor would only heal 32 HP. Just go to an inn! You'll save more time that way. Some of you guys are really trying to get this game down to a science. Yeah, I particularly like the scientific approach to things. I love the game because of nostalgia, but in all honesty it's not that exciting. To me, this has added a new level of excitement. The Admiral posted... Yes, in large thanks to Ryan8bit, Meteorstrike, akira slime, and a few others, the amount of information on this game has improved significantly over the past few years. Sadly, akira slime only did what I can imagine to be empirical testing, and his FAQ has errors that he never fixed. My formulas FAQ has all the name stuff in it, but I almost wonder if I should make a name FAQ to supplant his because no one was able to get a hold of him to fix it. Exactly how much time can be saved or lost based on bad strategy is a good question. It's kind of a tough question because what if my strategy is to just run to Hauksness at level 1 consistently? And not buy any equipment? Strategies could be purposefully bad to make beating this game take forever. Mostly in the new FAQ I'm writing based on my simulator results, I don't bother with strategies that are clearly foolish. Even the ones that start out bad I don't test further. Like for instance, starting the game naked and saving up for the Copper Sword is a bad strategy. It takes 4 minutes longer than the best strategy just to get to level 2 because you end up making more inn trips and taking forever to beat enemies. Even just buying a Bamboo Pole shaves off a few minutes from that terrible time, and you actually end up with MORE gold after you reach level 2 because of less inn trips. Therefore I don't even analyze that strategy any further because it's clear it won't pay off. | |
You're right about stupidly bad strategy, but it's the more nuanced ones that people think may be good that are worth testing. These might be the order in which to buy equipment upgrades or the best of two zones to grind in at certain levels. The initial equipment selection debate is always one of the more fun ones. Assuming a good long-term name choice, in my eyes there is no question that the Club is only logical choice of weaponry at the start. It allows you to one-hit Slimes at level 1 and Red Slimes at level 2. Aside from this, it will save at least a round of battle every 3 fights, which is more of a defensive boost than any piece of equipment. At level 3, the Club saves a round on average per battle against Drakees vs. the Bamboo Pole. I really can't see any argument that could possibly support the Pole given the actual statistics about what it does in combat. --- - The Admiral |
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