This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Theory about Lavos... (Spoilers)

#1x9hpPosted 3/21/2010 2:11:57 AM
First off, i say that i haven't played Chrono Cross. That said, the Extratemporal Locations FAQ Gives the theory a little merit.

Anyway. You know that Lavos is just the name that Ayla gave to it? Well, I think that Lavos's real name is Mammon. It powers the Mammon Machine that is inside a time bubble. the same on that Mammon Itself resides it. After finding Mammon, Zeal enslaved it for it's energy. Over time, Mammon became sour toward the mankind, leading to an attempt to avenge itself. If Chrono and other fail to kill Mammon off in 12000 B.C., Schala will find out what happened in reality, and attempts to free Mammon. She sucseeds, unfortunately, not only free it, but merge with it, Generating the Time Devourer. Also, i think that Spekkio and Sprigga are offsprings of Mammon.

Discuss.
I'll ansver all questions about my theory.
---
"I tried to think of something lovable, so that it couldn't destroy us..." Ray of the GhostBusters.
Well thought, Ray, I'm hungry.
#2Solo_HunterPosted 3/21/2010 4:38:29 AM
Mammon is hebrew for "sin", which means the use they were giving to the energy.

Queen Zeal was attracted to that location by Lavos. She didn't enslave it - Lavos called out to her and she had the machine built because Lavos was stationary there. Lavos' objective was always to keep itself hidden within the planet to drain everything it had. Perhaps his objective in letting his energy be used was to stir another wave of evolution (remember Ayla's people were changed by Lavos' arrival).
#3x9hp(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2010 10:15:40 AM
Mammon is hebrew for "sin", which means the use they were giving to the energy.

Well, that doesn't even flip the theory about the name.

Queen Zeal was attracted to that location by Lavos. She didn't enslave it - Lavos called out to her and she had the machine built because Lavos was stationary there. Lavos' objective was always to keep itself hidden within the planet to drain everything it had. Perhaps his objective in letting his energy be used was to stir another wave of evolution (remember Ayla's people were changed by Lavos' arrival).

It sounds pointless to generate another wave of evolution if it takes away your energy. As far as i know, Mammon thrives on the energy it absorbs, whereas the Mammon Machine absorbs it to power the Black Omen. There would be no reason for Mammon to help it's killer. Plus, according to the Extratemporal Locations FAQ, Both Mammon and the Mammon Machine exist in a Pocket Dimension.

They could be anywhere.
---
"I tried to think of something lovable, so that it couldn't destroy us..." Ray of the GhostBusters.
Well thought, Ray, I'm hungry.
#4protodude77Posted 3/22/2010 1:08:08 PM
Lavos, or Mammon as you choose to call it, feeds off of life energy. If it expends some of its energy to trigger a massive evolution, it is basically enhancing its food source. In the end, it would end up getting a higher net amount of energy.

The way you talk about Lavos/Mammon, it almost sounds like you think it was originally good, or at the very least apathetic. Somehow, I doubt that. It hails from a race of giant meteors that crash into planets. Simply by landing on this planet, it killed off all of the dinosaurs. Since we can assume that this is in the normal life cycle of a Lavos/Mammon, it probably didn't have any happy rainbow sunshine plans prior to 12000 BC.

As for the name... By your own logic, Mammon is as bad as Lavos. The great monstrosity itself didn't say to the Queen "Hey, I'm Mammon! Name your machine after me!" No. The people of Zeal named the Mammon Machine the same way that Ayla named Lavos.
---
Author of Leaf Green: The Real Story. If you like Pokemon, ask me for details.
Trade Leader of the Aura of a Champion Guild
#5Gekigangar3Posted 3/23/2010 12:02:48 AM
Self-important fanfiction? On MY GameFAQs?
---
"The GameFAQs boards are more advanced than any other boards on the net." ~ GSOC
#6x9hp(Topic Creator)Posted 3/23/2010 11:18:04 AM
I didn't say it was originally good. I said that it became good, or at least less evil and carefree toward the human race after meeting with Schala the first time through the Mammon Machine.

Besides, EVEN for sometihing so large, triggering an evolution wave would be less beneficial to it. Most of the energy would go to waste, and income would occur around 260,000,000 A.D. Without counting the energy wasted to keep the time bubble around itself and the machine intact.

Plus, Killing the dinosaurs and leaving humans alive, it proved its carefreeness about the planet itself. The Dinosaurs were too idiot to seek cover when seeing Mammon, and got killed. The humans however realised the danger and evacuated.
---
"I tried to think of something lovable, so that it couldn't destroy us..." Ray of the GhostBusters.
Well thought, Ray, I'm hungry.
#7protodude77Posted 3/23/2010 12:54:07 PM
Let me put your theory into a little timeline for you.
Lavos/Mammon/Otherrandomname/Spiky lands on the planet. Over 64 million years later, it talks to a single human and decides to not be evil. A couple years later, it wants to destroy the world. 14,300 years later, it attempts to.

Think about that for a minute. If Spiky didn't want to destroy the world in the first place, what was it doing for all those millions of years? Based on how it doesn't destroy the world immediately after the Zeal incident, it must have been a much more thought out and methodical plan than simple revenge. Why would it wait another 14000 some years to destroy the planet? No one that attacked it would even be around any more. It makes much more sense if it was simply waiting for the perfect time to feed.

You are underestimating both the power of Spiky and how just much energy it would get off of triggering the evolution. Let's start with the power. It sealed itself in a time bubble. That can't be easy. At all. So triggering an evolution would be like child's play. If Spiky was getting enough energy to maintain the time bubble for itself and the Mammon Machine, it could easily use a little bit more to trigger evolution. Now, onto the amount of energy it would get from the evolution. The evolution, you must understand, was magic. Before Spiky intervened, no one could use magic (see Ayla). But just how powerful is magic? Powerful enough to kill Spiky. That's some serious power. Over time, people forgot how to use magic. But, as demonstrated by Crono 'n' friends, they still had the power within them. So, Spiky planned on feeding on an entire planet full of people with enough power to kill him. If that's not enough food for Spiky, nothing short of the universe is.

While you're probably right about Spiky not intentionally killing the dinosaurs, you're wrong about the details. Since Crono was around when Spiky landed, we know a lot about what happened. First off, no humans hid besides the ones that were already hiding. Second off, all Spiky did was destroy the tower where a lot/the most powerful dinosaurs were living. They were all killed (except Black Tyranno). Humans, who already hated the dinosaurs, seized the opportunity to finish them off.
---
Author of Leaf Green: The Real Story. If you like Pokemon, ask me for details.
Trade Leader of the Aura of a Champion Guild
#8x9hp(Topic Creator)Posted 3/24/2010 7:13:37 AM
Over 64 million years later, it talks to a single human and decides to not be evil. A couple years later, it wants to destroy the world. 14,300 years later, it attempts to.

As far as I understand, Schala was treated about equally bad as Mammon. She, too, was enslaved to use the Mammon Machine, Zeal had no regard for her safety. There was probably some sort of sync going on.

Think about that for a minute. If Spiky didn't want to destroy the world in the first place, what was it doing for all those millions of years? Based on how it doesn't destroy the world immediately after the Zeal incident, it must have been a much more thought out and methodical plan than simple revenge. Why would it wait another 14000 some years to destroy the planet? No one that attacked it would even be around any more. It makes much more sense if it was simply waiting for the perfect time to feed.

Take into account that Mammon is an alien. A life form with (probably) higher IQ than us. Even revenge would need a complex and well thought plan.

Plus, as far as i know, the rain of fire it releases would more or less also waste energy.

You are underestimating both the power of Spiky and how just much energy it would get off of triggering the evolution. Let's start with the power. It sealed itself in a time bubble. That can't be easy. At all. So triggering an evolution would be like child's play. If Spiky was getting enough energy to maintain the time bubble for itself and the Mammon Machine, it could easily use a little bit more to trigger evolution. Now, onto the amount of energy it would get from the evolution. The evolution, you must understand, was magic. Before Spiky intervened, no one could use magic (see Ayla). But just how powerful is magic? Powerful enough to kill Spiky. That's some serious power. Over time, people forgot how to use magic. But, as demonstrated by Crono 'n' friends, they still had the power within them. So, Spiky planned on feeding on an entire planet full of people with enough power to kill him. If that's not enough food for Spiky, nothing short of the universe is.

It may be that Mammon would have loads of power. But Energy is only expended when starting/stopping time. Motion of energy freezes with the time.

About the magic, Everyone already had the power to use it, they just didn't know how.
How else would Ayla survive the Volt Bite tech without burning alive?

Also, planning on feeding on a planetful of powerful people would be foolhardy. Also, it may be that Mammon was intending to just rest on the planet, but somehow got stuck on landing, unable to leave the atmosphere. He had no choice but to succumb to Zeal.

---
"I tried to think of something lovable, so that it couldn't destroy us..." Ray of the GhostBusters.
Well thought, Ray, I'm hungry.
#9protodude77Posted 3/24/2010 1:10:12 PM
The thing about an argument is that you actually have to give proof in support of your theory. You can't just throw it out there and say "This is the truth!"

There was probably some sort of sync going on.
Honestly? This is a giant spiky alien that is at the very least millions of years old! There is no proof that it even has a language, let alone has the ability to speak English.

Take into account that Mammon is an alien. A life form with (probably) higher IQ than us. Even revenge would need a complex and well thought plan.

Plus, as far as i know, the rain of fire it releases would more or less also waste energy.

Again, no proof. We have no idea how high its IQ is. Being an alien does not automatically make you smart. For all we know, it could be like an animal simply acting on its survival instincts.

It may be that Mammon would have loads of power. But Energy is only expended when starting/stopping time. Motion of energy freezes with the time.
Okay, the lack of proof here isn't even funny. Energy is only expended when starting/stopping time? How could you possibly know if that's true or not? It could just as easily be true that it requires so much energy to maintain the time bubble.

About the magic, Everyone already had the power to use it, they just didn't know how.
How else would Ayla survive the Volt Bite tech without burning alive?

Wrong. I will quote Spekkio, when you bring Ayla to him: "Unfortunately, you were born before magic existed! But you seem to have other skills that will get you by."

Also, planning on feeding on a planetful of powerful people would be foolhardy.
Eating your primary food source isn't foolhardy. Would you rather eat a hamburger made from an old, diseased cow or one from a young, healthy cow? Or, maybe you'd prefer a salad. Would you prefer eating rotting vegetables or fresh ones?

Also, it may be that Mammon was intending to just rest on the planet, but somehow got stuck on landing, unable to leave the atmosphere. He had no choice but to succumb to Zeal.
Based on Spiky's general shape, it seems much more like a meteor than a space ship. It's not very likely that it goes around planet hopping for fun.

Besides all this, there is (at least) one more glaring flaw in your theory. If Spiky doesn't destroy planets for energy, where does it get its energy? Keep in mind that it kept itself inside a time bubble for millions of years all by itself without resurfacing.
---
Author of Leaf Green: The Real Story. If you like Pokemon, ask me for details.
Trade Leader of the Aura of a Champion Guild
#10Delta123456789Posted 3/24/2010 4:15:34 PM
It is hinted at in CT and IIRC affirmed in Chrono Cross that contact with the Frozen Flame (part of Lavos) was what enabled humans to use magic.

We know from one of the final battle quotes that Lavos exploited evolution for its own ends. I think most people assume lavos is simply a parasite that drains planets and evolves using the information, continuing its spread across the galaxy. As said above this is entirely attributable to survivalist instincts and there is no evidence for or against Lavos having higher intelligence/an interest in communicating.

As for the Mammon Machine, I believe Zeal citizens noted how the character of the queen changed overnight when it was first put into use. It is heavily implied that lavos was manipulating her from the start rather than being the exploited child your theory appears to paint it as.
---
"The Dream of Zeal is alive." - In memory of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes