Wondering about the popular SM hacks

#1Exp_HPPosted 2/17/2008 4:23:26 PM
Several are mentioned on these forums. Usually, I don't see game hacks mentioned, so these must be pretty decent.

Here are some questions I have for the popular ones:
1) What are they? (meaning what are their names)
2) How hard are they?
3) How do they compare to the original in quality?
4) Any new powerups? (which I would only expect from a 1337 h4x0rz, but I might as well ask)
5) How can I get them?
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#2Cauchys InequalityPosted 2/17/2008 9:14:58 PM
1) Good ones include Legacy, Dependence, Golden Dawn, Redesign, and Limit. Decent ones include Reverse, Magma, T-Metroid, and One Room. I'm only commenting on ones I've personally finished.

2) Typically they're harder than the original Super Metroid, though there are some that are only negligibly harder (like Metroid Legacy).. I'd say start with Metroid Legacy and then move on to Golden Dawn. From there, you'll be probably be able to tackle any of the other ones, though not without some difficulty.

3) It's hard to match a classic like Super Metroid. A lot of these have you use more advanced techniques (like Wall Jumping, Shinesparking, and Mockballing) much more liberally, in an attempt to bring some challenge to the game for veterans of Super Metroid. Others hide items much more nefariously, requiring you to be more careful or have a keen intuition. While I hesitate to call any of them "better" than Super Metroid (because love Super Metroid so very very much), I've definitely enjoyed some of them more than I would have enjoyed another playthrough of Super Metroid.

4) Redesign has two "new" power-ups, though they're really standard abilities from Super Metroid that have been taken away from you at the start of Redesign, forcing you to re-earn them.

5) [http://www.freewebs.com/metroidhacks/]. You need to patch these onto a ROM (with a program like Lunar IPS); don't ask where to get the ROM.

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"The world is a sphere. That means that the east is connected to the west, and the north is connected to the south." ~Enrique, Skies of Arcadia
#3SwordSaint892Posted 2/17/2008 9:15:34 PM
Metroid Redesign is apparently a pretty popular one, but I don't play hacks and can't really help you with the other questions.

I think there's one called Super Metroid Impossible or something like that as well, but I could be way off. I don't play hacks.


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SwordSaint892 , the cream of fangirl fanboyism.
#4TheMagician42Posted 2/17/2008 10:47:06 PM
Super Metroid Redesign is not very good. The creator changed the Physics of the game around. So if you are used to the way you jump and fall in Super Metroid you will feel very akward in Redesign. Redesign also changed the way Wall Jumps work too making them less useful.

Super Metroid Impossible is indeed a real hack. I think Kejardon hiself made it didn't he? Well anyways, Impossible is exactly that, impossible. It can be done but it is very hard. There is a Speed Run of Impossible uploaded on YouTube by a very good Super Metroid player.
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#5SheoldredPosted 2/17/2008 10:56:23 PM
In addition to what Cauchys Inequality mentioned, Darkness spreads 2 was pretty decent even though it was a halfhack if you can tolerate a decent amount of backtracking. But I'd say that you'd most likely want hacks listed as full hacks on the site Cauchys Inequality linked to.

Also, since it came up in the thread, Impossible wasn't made by Kejardon. It was made by Saturn, an expert speed runner. Kejardon helped out a bit on some of the more ASM intensive parts of Redesign.
#6FerentzRocksPosted 2/18/2008 10:18:12 AM
I wouldn't say Redesign is "not very good." It's by far the most extensive hack of the game and, from what I understand, was over two years in the making. It is a very different experience than the original due to the changes in physics, the way wall jumps work, the way the bombs work, the sheer size, it's almost overwhelming at times. It's not really Super Metroid. It's more like an entirely new Metroid game.

I personally have no desire to go back and replay Redesign but I'm still glad I played through it once. It's not my favorite hack but I respect Drew's vision.
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#7Cauchys InequalityPosted 2/18/2008 12:09:13 PM
Redesign is certainly a different game than Super Metroid, more so than any of the other hacks. I don't see this as bad thing at all.

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"The world is a sphere. That means that the east is connected to the west, and the north is connected to the south." ~Enrique, Skies of Arcadia
#8retrosticker903Posted 2/18/2008 4:01:39 PM
Redesign is all right, but it is so random, you're playing in a maze. For some players [like me], you would already be asking for a map, or looking at Saturn's video runs on YouTube. And getting the Beam Combination System and Wall Jump Boots can sometimes be awkward. And to make matters worse, you have to find 12 Chozo Guardian Statues and shut them down [by turning into a ball and being in their palms] if you want access to Tourian (killing Kraid, Phantoon, Draygon, and Ridley are just a few ways to get power-ups or find the statues).
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#9Exp_HP(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2008 9:14:39 PM
As a side-question, if Lunar IPS by any chance made by FuSoYa? I would use anything by the genius behind Lunar Magic (the only Super Mario World editor out there, and man do I wish every game had a ROM hacking tool this good).

It sounds like Redesign might be worth a try, despite the controversy. I am not far in Super Metriod. I have only fought two bosses, but I must say, it is a very easy game, even if I don't use Super Missiles. That's why I asked about the hacks. The only reason Redesign gets such a poor reception that it's too different, right? Well, it won't be too different to me.
Also, I want to see what kind of stuff I can do to a ROM once I learn asm.

I want some more information on the others:
Which ones hide the power-ups more cleverly?
Which ones have stronger enemies?
Which ones use advanced techniques intensively?
How do they compare in length?


Yes, I know, these questions kind of take a bit more effort to answer, but basically I'm wondering what makes each one difficult, and how long they are.
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#10Cauchys InequalityPosted 2/19/2008 12:06:01 AM
Lunar IPS is by FuSoYa, yes. I think he designed it originally for applying patches to Super Mario World, but it can apply patches to just about anything now, even things that aren't Super Nintendo ROMs.

A lot of these hacks are "you should be using save states" hard and are leagues above Super Metroid in terms of difficulty.

Legacy is the easiest of the first five I listed. It might be a little harder then Super Metroid, but it's not by much. The level layout isn't quite as linear, but as long as you're looking around enough you shouldn't have too much trouble finding things. Enemies are exactly the same as Super Metroid, I think.

Dependence and Golden Dawn are both hacks that prize exploration over everything else. The tough parts in these are finding the items you need to progress, and they're damn well hidden. Golden Dawn also has some decent fights, but in terms of combat difficulty, neither is significantly harder than Super Metroid.

Limit is crazy. It has some really combat-intensive parts and also requires a lot of dexterity; anyone who's played it can tell you how incredibly tough it is to collect the Plasma Beam, unless of course they weren't good enough and wimped out. Limit's also the only one I know that sometimes has an error in it: there's a point in the game where you need to acquire what's commonly referred to as "Blue Suit", but for some people (myself included) the intended method doesn't work. You can fix this by inputting a Game Genie code that gives you Blue Suit for the duration of the segment.

Redesign is, as you've probably heard by now, very different. A lot of work went into changing the physics, the most notable effects being that gravity seems significantly higher and wall jumping is a lot more limited in scope and usefulness. In addition, things are quite well hidden (though it's not to the extent of Golden Dawn), and there are some parts which require good maneuverability and combat prowess.

The next three I listed are half hacks, in which the overall layout of Zebes is the same as in the original Super Metroid but the contents of the rooms have been rearranged, often leading to a different route through familiar territory and possibly with different item sets than what you're used to (contrast this with the first five I listed, which all have brand new maps). Reverse I really enjoyed for a segment it has near the end, but otherwise I don't remember a whole lot about it. Metroid Magma is really short and is good for a single hour-or-two long session. T-Metroid has a lot of spikes lying around, which is pretty annoying (especially at the beginning when you don't have much health), but otherwise it's an interesting take on things. All three use only parts of the original Super Metroid map (though Reverse and T-Metroid use most of it) and are thus probably shorter than the original.

The first five are each as long as or longer than Super Metroid. Aside from Redesign having some pretty powerful Sidehoppers early on I don't really remember any of them having stronger normal enemies. They all tend to beef up the bosses somewhat; they'll have more health and might deal more damage, and often the rooms you have these fights in are arranged more antagonistically. Legacy is pretty lenient when it comes yo knowing advanced techniques, but you'll almost certainly need to know how to Wall Jump and Shinespark to finish the other four, and Redeisgn has some optional stuff that'll make you mockball and machball. You need to be able to infinite bomb jump starting from midair to get some things in Limit, and Redesign will ask you to infinite bomb jump with its altered bomb jumping physics and bomb placements in order to get some of its final goodies.

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"The world is a sphere. That means that the east is connected to the west, and the north is connected to the south." ~Enrique, Skies of Arcadia