Tales of Graces f
C/D: Tales of Vesperia PS3 is the worst thing to happen to the series
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DPK2020 posted... While the narrative was better scripted and tighter in Graces, when Vesperia's narrative did decide to pick up it was far more interesting than anything that is to be found in the whole of Graces. That's the really frustrating thing about Vesperia, yeah, the ideas were at the very least salvageable and could have been interesting if they'd only been handled better and explored more deeply. PostCrisisJ2 posted... It's like people who keep claiming that video games will never be on the same level of Shakespeare and yet never probably even read any of his stuff or even the context of the history of the time they were written. Oh yes, that annoys me quite a bit. They don't always even realise that the important thing about Shakespeare isn't the stories in and of themselves, it's well, what he does with them. The stories weren't always original to him, this whole concept that originality is a necessary component for a work of fiction to be any good is a relatively modern one. I hate how Shakespeare is always the reference point too. >_< There are plenty of other writers, and it can certainly be argued that Shakespeare doesn't always handle themes perfectly, either (this may, whether unintentionally or not -this is why using authorial intention as a critical tool is imo pointless- have actually made the plays the more interesting - Measure for Measure is weird, fascinatingly so). Palpable posted... Basically this. Does TWEWY count, or Contact (well, for a given value of 'cohesive' for that one)? Otherwise, no, not of the ones I've played. --- Currently waiting for the UK release of Tales of Graces f! | |
From: Ampharos64 | #041 Does TWEWY count, or Contact (well, for a given value of 'cohesive' for that one)? Otherwise, no, not of the ones I've played. I haven't played either of them so I can't really tell ya. From my understanding TWEWY was something something seven days something something, so..I have like no knowledge. There are plenty of other writers, and it can certainly be argued that Shakespeare doesn't always handle themes perfectly, either He's certainly a liiiittle more consistent than the jrpg genre, though. His historical plays and his comedies are brilliant though. Tragedies? Romeo and Juliet was great because it was just a bunch of sexual puns and then it got melodramatic. Most people use Shakespeare because he was such a good writer. He's, like, the Tupac of literature too, so he's the most easily recognizable and easiest to reference. I mean not everyone is going to get my point if I start bringing up how people shouldn't expect the jrpg to be on the same level as Homer. --- "I never did very well in math - I could never seem to persuade the teacher that I hadn't meant my answers literally." - Calvin Trillin | |
Not the worst, but at least if it didn't exists, I wouldn't want it. --- Opinion^ Games to troll: A Link to the Past, Skyward Sword, Tales of Graces, Star Ocean series, Breath of Fire 2, Dragon Quest X | |
Palpable posted... He's certainly a liiiittle more consistent than the jrpg genre, though. His historical plays and his comedies are brilliant though. Tragedies? Romeo and Juliet was great because it was just a bunch of sexual puns and then it got melodramatic. Agreed that Romeo and Juliet was definitely better before it got melodramatic (the irony of people complaining that JRPGs are melodramatic (as though that's always automatically a bad thing) and then bringing up Shakespeare). : ) Measure for Measure is just so completely 'Huh, what...?' it's amazing, though (plus lots and lots of sexual puns). I know, it makes sense, it just feels so unfair that he's the always the one who gets all the attention, and used somehow as this yardstick against which all else is found lacking without people really thinking about it. : ( I think if more people were familiar with medieval writers, they might look differently at the use of archetypal characters, for instance. Not that most of the people referencing Shakespeare are particularly familiar with his work either, it just tends to get used to shut down discussion and dismiss the medium, which is no fun at all. --- Currently waiting for the UK release of Tales of Graces f! | |
From: Ampharos64 | #044 I know, it makes sense, it just feels so unfair that he's the always the one who gets all the attention, and used somehow as this yardstick against which all else is found lacking without people really thinking about it. He's earned it. :( Or if you're one of those filthy filthy people, he "didn't write his stuff." Or if you've read other works of literature, particularly of the metafictional sort, a pygmy woman in a jar gives Shakespeare his stories every time he pokes her with a stick! It is annoying how conversations like this are nipped in the bud but I see it as sort of a blessing because most gamers in general aren't fun people to talk to about the literary aspects of jrpgs. You get a majority of people who think they know what they're talking because they browse TVTropes and think high school English is the culmination of all the experience you need to read and examine literature and then a very small minority who can actually hold a discussion. --- "I never did very well in math - I could never seem to persuade the teacher that I hadn't meant my answers literally." - Calvin Trillin | |
o.0 Shakespeare in the mix...........not my department. Honestly I've never heard anyone ask for that from a game. (At least not seriously) --- Nobody wants to be educated and nobody wants to educate, yet everyone wants to have a vibrant opinion - digidevilwil Awaiting:ToX/2, NnK, P4A, P4G, SAO, AWS1/2 | |
I liked the War Of The Lions retranslation pretty well. | |
Shakespeare's earned it by being a master storyteller. The thing about him is that he was a master when it came to prioritizing between story and character. He simply knew when to focus more on the characters or the overall story in any of his pieces. That is why the majority of his works are celebrated as masterpieces. Most of the stories that he told were hardly original themselves but he was gifted at coming up with new twists and re-imagining old long told themes. Along with this he was able to create memorable characters that served the enhance the plot. Tales problem from a storytelling perspective has always been really strong on the individual characters and their interactions with one another but weak on general story. This is largely due to how most modern(I'm talking writers everywhere)writers approach storytelling. Which is that they'll come up with a general story outline first and then try to fit characters in the story and then flesh everything out from there, when they should be writing the story around their characters. When you come up with good characters and really flesh them out first, you find that a storyline will practically write itself and because your characters dictate the story and not the other way around you'll typically have a much stronger cohesion between the characters and storyline. This benefits the narrative a great deal and your story will come off much stronger will have more personal depth. | |
...Aren't you just arguing that character-centered stories are better than plot-centered ones? --- You doff so furiously you are in danger of starting a HAT FIRE. Black tumblr is worse than BET. | |
From: DPK2020 | #048 This benefits the narrative a great deal and your story will come off much stronger will have more personal depth. ..quite the, uh, objective standpoint there. --- "I never did very well in math - I could never seem to persuade the teacher that I hadn't meant my answers literally." - Calvin Trillin |
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