Did the DLC improve or drop your overall rating and opinion of Infinite?

#21DarquePosted 4/21/2014 2:35:50 AM
To be honest, it made me dislike Bioshock (as in the first one) - and Bioshock is one of my all time favorite games.

I'm not sure what they were attempting to do - but I don't think they succeeded.
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#22SunsprayHoneyPosted 5/6/2014 6:53:24 PM
For me it just strengthened what I already felt for Infinite and didn't really affect my opinion of the first game. The stuff with Fitzroy actually had me laughing. Rather than writing her character properly to begin with they put in that half-assed explanation with the Lutece's letting her know what to do. I actually clapped my hands together and went "Problem solved!". Someone else in a different topic wrote how BaS2 was Levine's way of giving everybody the middle finger. I don't think that's what he intended but it sure felt that way.

The other lol moment was Elizabeth literally saying "It kinda makes sense..." at the Big Daddy explanation. Thank you Meta-Elizabeth. I'm surprised she didn't say "If this was a game and somebody was playing this...they should be satisfied now."

And what was with the dialogue lifted straight from Inception? I know Ken likes that movie but at least the one idea in the main campaign wasn't as obvious. Wouldn't have even known about it unless he didn't mention it in an interview.
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#23rdh80Posted 5/7/2014 9:39:15 PM
It definitely hurt Infinite for me, and to an extent it tainted Bioshock as well.

As other posters have said, I feel like most of BaS's story was made of up explanations justifying its existence. BaS just throws the ending of Infinite out the window: so you're telling me one Comstock escaped? Who says several more didn't escape? Not only that, but they had the 'brilliant' idea of using the same plot twist from the main game (Booker is Comstock) thus using it twice in a row. The whole Daisy sequence just screamed 'backpedaling' and the whole Songbird sequence was just a slap in the face to anyone who actually wanted to know who/what it/he/she was. And in my opinion this isn't a case of "it's better/more powerful if it's kept a mystery" because we're talking about a character that we're supposed to feel sorry for and a character that was (supposed to be anyway) a main part of the story but just ended up as a plot device. That whole part just felt like a cop out- instead of coming up with an interesting explanation for Songbird they just shrug their shoulders and say "well, he was basically a big daddy".

It also had the same problem Bioshock 2 had in that so much important stuff was going on that it's hard to believe nobody would mention it in Bioshock 1. I mean, you'd think Suchong would mention there being a dimension-hopping woman running around, or the fact that Tears exist. You'd think Ryan would as well, especially since he was so concerned about thieves/outsiders/spies; it makes his shock upon Jack's arrival in Bioshock 1 less believable. If Elizabeth managed to get there without his notice, why is he all "how did you get here? who are you?" when Jack arrives? You'd also think the Radar Range, drinkable plasmids, and the 'air grabber' (that was in my opinion the worst thing from Infinite they threw in, why did there have to be 'skylines' in Rapture? It felt so out of place) and other such things like that would be mentioned once in a while. Also there's the fact that Big Daddies are running around when they shouldn't be, as BS1 makes it clear (or fairly clear at least) that they were created during the civil war.

And then the ending was just the nail in the coffin for me: Elizabeth dies just so Jack can save the day (vicariously) and it trots out the tired "redemption only through death" trope yet again rather than having genuine forgiveness take place in some form- either of Comstock's actions or Elizabeth's - as that was the big thing Levine had said he changed about his approach to the ending or at least the character of Lady Comstock (and Comstock too if I recall). That would have concluded Infinite's story arc rather than have it latch on to the already complete and whole Bioshock 1. Because of BaS I feel that it further cements the fact that Infinite can never really be viewed as its own entity, only as a component of Bioshock 1, a game that stands on its own.

That's why in my personal head-canon BaS takes place in an alternate universe.
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#24Humanoid_SharksPosted 5/8/2014 6:32:18 AM
It improved it, but it wasn't enough to make me view Infinite as anything more than the horrible stain that I see it as.
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#25terrysmay04Posted 5/8/2014 1:54:20 PM
I still haven't finished it due to the the backpedaling over the whole Daisy thing. And inexcusable pandering to people who complained "oh gee you make it seem like the black people are bad guys" totally f***ed up my views on Infinite and its message.

Also, waaaay too late. I am a huge fan of this series but to be honest I had sort of lost interest in this game by the time BaS came out.
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#26I_Dont_AgreePosted 5/9/2014 5:57:48 PM
Hurt. Infinite was already a jumbled mess honestly, but BaS made it worse because it failed to fill in some plot holes and felt like a giant Bioshock 1 fanfiction that STILL failed to explain some of the stuff that went on in Columbia.

BaS 1 wasn't too bad (I liked the location, the emphasis on survival, and the twist at the end) but tying it to Rapture sucked. Of the apparently infinite possibilities why set it in Rapture? Why not expand Columbia? I love Rapture too, but it needs a new game, not DLC for an unrelated game. And they turned Elizabeth into some Angel of Vengeance thing which I thought made her look spiteful and dumb. But story seemed to make sense to me.

BaS 2 was a wreck. Playing as Elizabeth was cool and the stealth idea was nice, but the mechanics are the most broken thing I've ever seen. Insta-sleep darts, unlimited invisibility, grossly overpowered Possession/OMW (when upgraded). Absolutely busted. Ironsides may as well not even be in the game, considering how late you get it and how useless it is when you already have 3 other overpowered ''plasmids'' (god I hate how they retconed plasmids into cocktails...).

Story was jumbled and pretentious too. They pulled this Liz-caused-the-events-of-Rapture thing and it was just so implausible it was stupid. Too many things retconed in and out or Rapture, too many dumb justifications (the scene with Daisy and Lutece being the worst offender), and STILL left us in the dark on some things (like Songbird, there was such a huge emphasis on imprinting yet no reveal of its identity. Guess we're supposed to assume he's just some random guy Combstock machine'd).

Elizabeth even being there makes zero sense. Time-Goddess Liz sacrifices everything (even tears, which were a big part of Infinite) to go back and change one thread of time (out of INFINITE) to save some little girl she barely even knows? Unbelievable, even by Infinite's standards. And at the end of this murky plot the ending sucked.

Also, Booker. I have no words for it, including him the way they did was awful.

However, thanks to the faulty concept of infinite realities, we can just pretend BaS never happened. Or Infinite for that matter...
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#27ROCKS_21Posted 5/12/2014 11:19:24 AM
Kagami84 posted...
Cjcharisma posted...
Hurt infinite too IMO, made episode 2 just a big circle jerk to Bioshock 1, there is no way a year ago when Infinite first came out I ever dreamed it would tie into Rapture that way, and the character of Elizabeth would be killed by ATLAS, Atlas all of people.


I guess that was the intention. You didn't see it coming. Ken Levine blew out mind several times with each game. Atleast we get to have our vengeance on Atlas/ Fontaine when we play Bioshock 1.


Blew our mind? Please shut up. Thats just a lazy hack tie in, thought up at the last minute. People wouldn't expect if because it is so stupid a direction to have gone in.
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#28ROCKS_21Posted 5/12/2014 12:03:10 PM(edited)
terrysmay04 posted...
I still haven't finished it due to the the backpedaling over the whole Daisy thing. And inexcusable pandering to people who complained "oh gee you make it seem like the black people are bad guys" totally f***ed up my views on Infinite and its message.

Also, waaaay too late. I am a huge fan of this series but to be honest I had sort of lost interest in this game by the time BaS came out.


You should be more mad over the poor handling of both Daizy and blacks in general in Infinite in the first place than those complaining. The complaints were deserved. This concession does seem like it does come from a lot of the things I also complained about with the main story of Infinite though, in mere attempt to shoot down those criticisms as opposed to actually wanting to treat characters and demographics properly. I would have preferred better closure than this lazy piece of work.
Its clear that Levine never intended to have any genuine portrayal or closure for the oppressed minorities in Infinite, because he is too out of touch and too much of a coward to properly tackle such real world issues that don't compliment his privileged nihilist approach, which is why this concession seems so last minute.
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#29EverDownwardPosted 5/15/2014 10:46:41 PM
I already really disliked Infinite, so the DLC absolutely pissed me off.
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#30rdh80Posted 5/17/2014 3:18:41 AM(edited)
ROCKS_21 posted...

You should be more mad over the poor handling of both Daizy and blacks in general in Infinite in the first place than those complaining. The complaints were deserved. This concession does seem like it does come from a lot of the things I also complained about with the main story of Infinite though, in mere attempt to shoot down those criticisms as opposed to actually wanting to treat characters and demographics properly. I would have preferred better closure than this lazy piece of work.
Its clear that Levine never intended to have any genuine portrayal or closure for the oppressed minorities in Infinite, because he is too out of touch and too much of a coward to properly tackle such real world issues that don't compliment his privileged nihilist approach, which is why this concession seems so last minute.


This. Finally glad someone brought this up.

Watching (didn't buy it, probably won't) a walkthrough of BaS Part 2 really made the problems of race in Infinite even more apparent in my opinion. For one, I felt like in the Columbia sections the Scary Black Man stereotype was played up heavily and also it never occurred to me how terribly racist the portrayal of Suchong is. I mean, he speaks in broken English, betrays everyone at the drop of a hat, and is completely amoral. How is that not any different from the stereotype of the 'conniving Chinaman' or the 'barbaric Japanese' that we see not just today, but also with the propaganda of the 1940s, the serials/films from 1930s-60s (give or take), early twentieth century literature, and the whole general 'Oriental' stereotype that has persisted in artwork since before Napoleon at least (it goes back too far back for me to specify a date)?

As you said, Levine doesn't want to make any commentary on any of this at all it seems and doesn't (or perhaps can't) tackle these issues. People tend to forget the fact that the Vox, while violent, yes, WERE oppressed in the most vicious way possible- slave labor, racism, etc.- and yet in the game they're treated as being as bad as the Founders. Such a false equivalency. Not only that, but there are no Vox- and by extension, really, no minorities - who are shown to be level-headed, or reasonable, or non-stereotypical. Everyone is just a walking stereotype and all of the Vox simply become cartoon villains rather than interesting antagonists. And that's a problem with all of Infinite actually- very few of the characters are all that complex or compelling, especially the antagonists. Comstock has very little depth to him in that we've seen his character a thousand times before in other works (the crazy old preacher who's secretly conning everyone), and Daisy is made out to be just a violent thug.

When I first heard about this game- heck, when the first 10 minute gameplay demo was shown- from what I saw this was going to handle the issues of racism and nationalism with intelligence and nuance. Instead, not only was the focus on nationalism dropped (which is far more complex and interesting in that religious extremism is too easy when it comes to making a villain), but so was the issue of race as well, as it ultimately was never really addressed and the game itself wallowed in stereotypes.
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