Buying weapons at the AH with Astral Diamonds... not Pay to Win?

#11pres_madagascarPosted 5/6/2013 10:57:43 AM(edited)
larvan posted...
I really don't see how this game is p2w since there's no overpowered gear, you all get the same, sure diamonds can take awhile to farm but in the long run you can still get what people bought with real money it just take's time

you have the choice to buy or not to. If you don't like the idea of farming for it then why are you wasting time?


More or less.

Also, i get really lucky I guess because i am level 25 and have 375k astral diamonds just from selling stuff I've found and doing daily dungeons/skirmishes, which I do anyway to grind new companions closer to where they need to be to not be murdered when im soloing.

I've also spent some. I spent 40k on the permanent basic horse, as well as like 80k for two other companions.
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#12daveyman23Posted 5/6/2013 12:32:59 PM
Darth_Dragon posted...
R0N1N187 posted...
How is that not Pay to Win again?


Sorry but its NOT pay to win. You can grind out the same resources and buy the exact same gear for FREE. Yes you have to spend more time to grind out the AD but you didn't spend a dime on it.

Also people that complain about ZEN. You can convert AD to ZEN and buy store crap again for FREE.

People that spend the money are just getting the gear you can get for free faster. Pay to Win is only true if you can ONLY get the gear by spending money.


Actually, you are completely wrong. If you can buy the gear/weapons/etc with real money, it IS pay to win. Just because non-payers can also acquire it doesn't mean its not pay to win.
#13xlequltxPosted 5/6/2013 12:50:07 PM
No such thing as pay to win. Just go grind 10k times longer than anyone else to get the same thing.
#14MoonKnight2Posted 5/6/2013 12:52:59 PM
For me, P2W means someone can buy gear that can't be found any place in-game and throws off the balance of PvE or PvP. I play Neverwinter, and I don't think the system is P2W. I can get the same gear as anyone else if I put in the time to quest. If anything, this game is pay for convenience. If you don't want to quest, you can spend money/zen/astral diamonds in the leadership profession and have a level 60 in about 20-24 hours.....buy why? That seems to defeat the purpose of a game where you're supposed to be involved in a story arc, go see these areas that were built by programmers, fight bosses, find gear, etc. That's just my thoughts on the P2W subject though.
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#15confusedinmorrowindPosted 5/6/2013 1:56:49 PM(edited)
Sadly it IS pay to win, simply for this fact. Quoted from a reddit thread about their f2p model...

Players are given the option to add additional stats/effects to their equipment in Neverwinter. These come in the forms of Runestones (pets) and Enchantments (Armor/Weapon). For pets, the Runestones are split into Offense and Defense. For Enchantments, they are split into Offense, Utility, and Defense. A single Runestone/Enchantment provides different bonuses depending on which slot there are equipped to. These also have ranks and start from 1 and ends at 9. Four of the same kind may also fuse to move up a tier. The chance of success starts at 95% at rank 1 and 10% at rank 8. You will lose a single Runestone/Enchantment upon failure.

There are two ways to circumvent failure: Preservation Ward and Coalescent Ward. Preservation Wards cost 10 cents each and prevent the loss of materials upon failure. They are also only consumed upon failure. Coalescent Wards cost 10 dollars and guarantees success of fusion. Both these wards may also be obtained on a weekly basis through Celestial Coins (the latter being rarer). Now you may be wondering why there's a huge discrepancy between the two Wards. I was wondering for a while too until I stepped my foot into endgame and found out there was an entirely different type of Enchantments: The Armor/Weapon Enchantments.

Armor/Weapon Enchantments are for specific slots in your weapon/chest and grant special effects. They come in shards and have a chance to drop from Epic Dungeon bosses. You must combine 4 shards to create a Lesser version of the Enchantment. However, the success chance of fusion is at a staggeringly low 1% . To compensate, they have very strong effects. However, the real kicker here is that these "Lesser" versions may be fused again to gain a stronger version. Those may also be fused again to create the strongest version. Ultimately, the Greater Thunderhead Enchantment will have a 30% on crit to damage and stun foes. To create the strongest Enchantment possible, it will cost 160 dollars and 64 shards. Unlike companions, these can be used in PvP.


EDIT: Here is the reddit thread link for anyone else interested. http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1dry0g/neverwinters_f2p_model_what_you_need_to_know/

EDIT 2: Meant to say it ISN'T pay to win, since yeah I guess a non-paying player could get all the very rare shards needed to get 1 high level enchantment... Not gonna happen. Kinda disappointing.
#16wombat013Posted 5/6/2013 1:59:46 PM
What were the devs. going to sell to make money for this F2P game?! Stop your whining. "it's pay 2 win. Boo hoo waaah. Now that other guy has slightly better/prettier stuff than me!!!"
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#17WynnSilvergazePosted 5/6/2013 4:55:33 PM
I thought pay to win was if you had no other choice BUT to buy an item to stay competitive with other players......

Pay for convenience is more like it. Get that item now, or wait a few weeks and get it later with some work.
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#18MrMonkhousePosted 5/6/2013 5:05:55 PM
It seems enchantments are the main selling profits for the company since they do count in PvP.
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#19AuspexAOPosted 5/6/2013 5:38:43 PM
As far as wards are concerned, they drop in lockboxes on occasion. I have three of the best ones. Here's how it works: it takes about two days of AD to get a key from the zen store. Buy nothing but keys and use them on your best lockboxes to get wards. Save the wards for your endgame gear. No money spent.

Or you can shell out $10/month for keys and support the game. With ten boxes you'll either get enough wards to get you by easily OR you'll get crap you can sell on the AH for stuff you want to buy with AD.

You don't have to pay 100+ bucks for top tier gear. People who do that are stupid.
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#20_Yag_Posted 5/6/2013 5:44:55 PM
Element_Pearl posted...
From: Darth_Dragon | #006
R0N1N187 posted...
How is that not Pay to Win again?


Sorry but its NOT pay to win. You can grind out the same resources and buy the exact same gear for FREE. Yes you have to spend more time to grind out the AD but you didn't spend a dime on it.

Also people that complain about ZEN. You can convert AD to ZEN and buy store crap again for FREE.

People that spend the money are just getting the gear you can get for free faster. Pay to Win is only true if you can ONLY get the gear by spending money.


I'm getting tired of blowing this argument out of the water, but I'm going to do it again because honestly it's almost flat out dishonest to say 'you can get Zen by trading in AD'.

Yeah. Okay. You can get 1 Zen by paying, at this moment, 460 AD. Let that sink in a minute. 460 AD buys you the equivalent of 1 cent in Zen. You can make a max of 24k AD a day, not counting anything you might get lucky enough to find and auction off.

So lets look at something that's not too expensive...like a respec token. 600 Zen. 600*460 = 276000/24000 =11.5. To grind out a single respec token, you're looking at 11 days of full on AD grinding. It's a full day's work to max out your rough diamonds at 24k. I'm assuming you can make the remaining 12000 AD needed after 11 days on the AH or something.

11-12 days for a respec.

4 days or so for a single Nightmare Key.

58 or so days for a 3000 Zen companion character. (1380000\24000)

It's disingenuous at best to claim that you can get anything in the Zen store just by playing the game and almost downright dishonest. Especially when you factor in the fact that AD are not a static resource. You have to spend hundreds, sometimes thousands of AD a day in the game for basic necessities, like identify scrolls. (Smooth move on that one, PWE. People can buy less Zen with their AD if they need to save AD just to play the game.)

To be clear, I have no problems with this game. I enjoy playing it but I'm never going to spend a dime on it and it makes me feel a little sick to see people defending PWE's shady business practices. In almost every case the person defending them has already spent a significant amount of money on the game.

I mostly just want to stop seeing people lying about how you can get anything on the Zen market in a reasonable amount of time.


I think you glossed over the most important bit there buddy.

and you can make WAY more AS than that in a day, because selling drops does in fact exist. and yeah you mentioned it, but then disregarded it completely in your "calculations"
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