Something that has been bothering me since the gameplay trailer was shown

#1cgenteroPosted 6/14/2011 8:45:19 PM(edited)
First off let me explain something, this a reboot, it is also an origin story, in the same way Batman Begins or Casino Royale are both reboots and origin stories. It is essential you understand this to understand my point.

I'll admit gameplay shown in the trailer looks fairly DMC, looks like a mix of Dante and Nero, and should it run at 60fps then huzzah. However nothing "new" has been shown for the gameplay, the whip is essentially Nero's DB snatch and the closest thing to something new is the stabbing enemies against ground\wall.

This brings me to my problem, if the only thing this reboot is nothing but a cosmetic change then whats the point. The things that made DMC gameplay unique have been copied numerous times, some would it has even been surpassed in recent years. Does Capcom really believe 2.5 million more people will play DMC games if they are brutal instead of stylish, grimdark instead of over the top, urban punk instead of gothic horror, etc.

Lets take a look at another combination reboot and origin story, Tomb Raider. The latest TR before the reboot, Underworld, in a similar situation to DMC4 sold well, both around 2.5 million, but had become formulaic. So when times came around to do something about it they focused on the gameplay additions instead of the cosmetic changes, DmC seems very lazy in comparison.
.
---
Love is creepy, Sex is disgusting
If they were horror genres they would be Lovecraftian and Body Horror
#2GoldsicklePosted 6/14/2011 10:24:27 PM
In a video interview, the team talked about making cutscenes playable without resorting to Quick Time Events.

I'm interested in how this goes and if it's good, I hope it will replace QTE.
---
There is no such thing as a "Quick Time Event done right".
A game that has Quick Time Events is a "video game done wrong".
#3W3lkinPosted 6/15/2011 12:41:31 AM
. However nothing "new" has been shown for the gameplay, the whip is essentially Nero's DB snatch and the closest thing to something new is the stabbing enemies against ground\wall.

Honestly you guys should bother to actually look into the trailers. It shows in order:

--Brutal finishers similar to NG2 Obliteration technique
-- Completely different special mode from DT, with a pseudo time-freeze (copied from Bayo). That part also is quite weird since the camera may hint that the whole attack sequence is somewhat automatic.
--Heavy impact attacks (after some sword slashes or the axe attacks) that are most likely used to break the combos to deal easily with the far slower pace this game will have
-- Different aerial combat, with a grab (similar to Nero's buster) and a whip (once again copied from Bayo) which seems to focus on keeping Dante floating in air for longer with a far slower feel.
-- Many more crowd control options, like the pseudo whip like weapon at the end hitting and juggling many enemies at once.
-- Special power attacks, like the Ground Pound and the Power Slash at the end. Both of them look to be flashy and slow to break completely the pace.
-- Different shooting, now it actually shoots in bursts rather than controlled directly by the players. This seems to go in hand with the weapon cooldown rumour, which means that now the firearms weapons will be used differently.

This coupled with the obvious sub-30 fps performance will lead to a game that may look like DMC to the casual inexperienced players but in reality will be completely different.
#4cgentero(Topic Creator)Posted 6/15/2011 8:04:40 AM(edited)
@W3lkin

-I was going to refer to the ground\wall stab as OTs but wasn't sure if everybody would know the term, again this is new for DMC.

-Its hard to say if its going to be automatic since the trailer used plenty of "cinematic" angles while showing gameplay, if it is its probably like NG3 i.e. press a button and a direction which would be new, as for the time freeze that's been in DMC since the beginning

-You mean like Exceed attacks?

-like I said its just Nero's DB snatch

-It does where?

-Air to ground versions of Volcano and Crawler are sorta new I guess

-Hard to say, they only show guns used twice, once during time freeze and once not.

Its certainly tweaked in different ways but my point stands this this reboot is majority a cosmetic change, BTW I don't expect this to run 60fps.

People complained DMC4 played too much like DMC3 yet DmC looks it trying for the same. I don't understand peoples support for a reboot for a game series that had become "stale" if said reboot is nothing but a different paint job than the last game.
.
---
Love is creepy, Sex is disgusting
If they were horror genres they would be Lovecraftian and Body Horror
#5Yami_light_Posted 6/15/2011 8:00:24 AM
This is interesting, you have a good point.
the thing is, we don't know if this gameplay trailer was what they had in mind, maybe it was just to appeal and calm my worries, cause yeah, it feels DMC, but there's still the problem about 30 fps, I know. But maybe this was just to make "fans eat their words" and a trailer with new mechanics is shown later, I'm guessing TGS(or maybe earlier, since at TGS would be weird lol)

As far as what new stuff they can do, I'm not very creative, what more can you add in a hack and slash that I haven't seen in another game of the genre? maybe a more friendly interface,or that thing @Goldsickle was talking about.

Oh and IMO the tomb raider is fairly the same but darker, maybe just less guns,less acrobatic, more puzzles and some degree of QTE's.
The major change was to turn the lara character more realistic, not a gaming sex icon again lol
---
---
If gameplay is solid, I'll play it, most of you play games where you only see a hand holding a gun anyway ... -PSN:Light_Yami
#6W3lkinPosted 6/15/2011 8:02:50 AM
-You mean like Exceed attacks?

I had the impression the ones in the trailer were like combo enders rather than standalone attacks.

-like I said its just Nero's DB snatch

It looks different though. Dino stays in the air for a longer time and seems to float. The whip move is quite slower. That's gonna change the aerial combat.

-It does where?

In the final part in the church, where Dino uses a blue powered weapon.

-Air to ground versions of Volcano and Crawler are sorta new I guess

It's hard to tell until they're shown in-game.

-Hard to say, they only show guns used twice, once during time freeze and once not.

3 times if i remember right, and Dino always threw a burst with minimal movement. Again it's hard to tell.

Its certainly tweaked in different ways but my point stands this this reboot is majority a cosmetic change, BTW I don't expect this to run 60fps.
.


As i said i believe the game will feel slower and heavier, and with OT and Heavy impact attacks breaking the combo flow frequently it will feel a lot different IMO. The cinematic attacks may also be an issue depending on how they're implemented, and so are the guns.
#7Xtreme65Posted 6/15/2011 9:18:07 AM
The reboot could also be a way different story. Ever since 3 Capcom wanted DMC to be more story driven and while 3s story wasnt to shabby 4 proved that Capcom was running out of ideas. Ive always had the impression this was the main reason for a reboot. If it were up to me I would have just made a new game series.
---
http://www.myspace.com/xtreme65
#8cgentero(Topic Creator)Posted 6/15/2011 8:35:41 PM
Yami_light_ posted...
Oh and IMO the tomb raider is fairly the same but darker, maybe just less guns,less acrobatic, more puzzles and some degree of QTE's. The major change was to turn the lara character more realistic, not a gaming sex icon again lol


I'm going to guess you've only seen the new TR gameplay trailer, which doesn't really show much of the new features that have been talked about.

-day\night cycle and dynamic weather, you also need food, water, and such to survive
-hub based level design ala Metroid, you gain new abilities and tools to reach new areas
-puzzles use real world physics, and the instinct mode which highlights objects to use.
-combat has changed too, A free aim instead of auto aim, not to mention a whole lot of QTEs

Compare this to DmC which seems to be a gritty reboot for the sake of looking gritty.
.
---
Love is creepy, Sex is disgusting
If they were horror genres they would be Lovecraftian and Body Horror
#9solo_bladePosted 6/15/2011 8:55:37 PM
-- Different aerial combat, with a grab (similar to Nero's buster) and a whip (once again copied from Bayo) which seems to focus on keeping Dante floating in air for longer with a far slower feel.
Aerial combat that starts with a Highroller, with a bit of Aerial rave, a whip that copies from bayo (which copied the devil buster), and ends with a Split.


-- Many more crowd control options, like the pseudo whip like weapon at the end hitting and juggling many enemies at once.
That was just Streak with a scythe, at least before the juggling. But yes juggling seems to have expanded.


-- Special power attacks, like the Ground Pound and the Power Slash at the end. Both of them look to be flashy and slow to break completely the pace.
You mean DMC3's Hammer, and a combination of Drive & Helm Splitter.
---
Ore no Solo ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai!! - NME_Enterprises
#10Stink_NastyPosted 6/15/2011 9:04:37 PM
Yea solo hit the nail on the head, I don't think those are crowd specific moves, or combo finishers, I believe they are just moves highlighted that have some of those effects. i mean some weapons in the DMC universe are better for crowd controlling than others.

and Cgent, where's the link on all that info? I've missed all of that. Is that in the interview? I haven't bothered watching it because everyone said it shows nothign new.
---
Official Vergil of the DmC boards. -PSN: mdelrio344 XBL: Stinkk Nassty34