I was playing psychonauts, and this reminded me of the criticism for this game

#111TheOriginalMaxPosted 3/31/2012 12:37:46 PM
MeCarana posted...
TheOriginalMax posted...
249_US_dollars posted...
No it isn't. Doing something dumb doesn't make you dumb. It's a pretty important distinction.

But for the person to do something dumb, or rather cognitively deficient, already refers to the person's cognitive capabilities. You are just trying to cop-out. Why don't you try saying it's something else other than an insult?

>Unless there's a glaring error in word choice, you're probably being overly pedantic if you cite a dictionary. You know what he means. I know what he means. Why argue semantics?
Because it always goes into this during a convo with him.

*snip because the post is massive*



Max, while your reasoning is true, I think seeing so much into it may not be ideal.

Sure, to you it's implied, but for someone who doesn't have that reasoning and understanding, he may only have aimed at your words and not you.

I don't want to get deep into it because it's quite complicated semantics, but to me, when someone says "that's dumb" or "you're dumb" I naturally put "In my opinion," in front of the "insult" or "opinion".

Also, it implies being dumb at that moment, from that person's perspective, not objectively dumb all the time.

You may be expecing too much and reading too much into it, perhaps?

Still, I think it is fair to expect respect because we give it by default. Calling stuff "dumb" is not necessarily necessary.


So I'm basically reading too much into it? Well, English isn't my first language and if in my language someone calls some action stupid they're referring to the person who did it. I just find it odd to make a distinction between what the person did and who the person is because actions come from a person. I sincerely doubt USD or Hworang for that matter aren't referring to the person when they say things like that, and the way they said it only emphasises this doubt. I even explained a reason why it isn't dumb but did it get ignored? Of course. Did I ask if it was only that the person doesn't like seeing that one specific statement and the person then saying yes? I did and they did. I do spot malice in what they said, and although I will have to apologise for the misunderstanding, I can't help but see clear attacks here, especially looking at past track records. The word choice just doesn't sit well here, especially due to the what has happened so far. So I would also like to request more respectful behaviour towards others from my opposition. I don't think this is an uncalled for request.

I'm wrong in that it can't be used without referring to one's cognition. This I admit, and I apologise for it.
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To be fair, no one has unlimited patience, and at times this board could come close flustering the Buddha.-geekneck99
#112MeCaranaPosted 3/31/2012 12:54:25 PM(edited)
TheOriginalMax posted...
MeCarana posted...
TheOriginalMax posted...

So I'm basically reading too much into it? Well, English isn't my first language and if in my language someone calls some action stupid they're referring to the person who did it. I just find it odd to make a distinction between what the person did and who the person is because actions come from a person. I sincerely doubt USD or Hworang for that matter aren't referring to the person when they say things like that, and the way they said it only emphasises this doubt. I even explained a reason why it isn't dumb but did it get ignored? Of course. Did I ask if it was only that the person doesn't like seeing that one specific statement and the person then saying yes? I did and they did. I do spot malice in what they said, and although I will have to apologise for the misunderstanding, I can't help but see clear attacks here, especially looking at past track records. The word choice just doesn't sit well here, especially due to the what has happened so far. So I would also like to request more respectful behaviour towards others from my opposition. I don't think this is an uncalled for request.

I'm wrong in that it can't be used without referring to one's cognition. This I admit, and I apologise for it.


Well, those things should be taken into account, but generally, it really depends of the intent behind the words.

If the person openly considers you dumb, calling what you said dumb, I suppose would imply you are dumb.

But in a way, even smart people do dumb things. Like you said, at the time I did dumb things, in retrospect, I must have have dumb thought patterns.

But until when are those thought patterns me?

This is some deep philosophical stuff. I bet there are some neurological fact reinforcing the matter as well.

The point is, there is, in langage, at least in both french and english, a difference between "saying something dumb" and being dumb, from my experience in both langages. One spoken since birth, the other from 10 years ago. It depends of the circumstances and the way it's said. I mean, if I am talking about whatever concept and the concept makes no sense, it doesn't mean I make no sense; I make no sense if by expressing my beliefs, they make no sense.

So I think that in some cases, you can call what someone said dumb, without calling the person dumb. But it should be taken in a case by case basis, and here you might be right to consider calling it dumb implying you are.

The difference I think comes when expressing facts; and expressing beliefs.

But that's a part of langage that is managed by the right part of the brain; like Japanese. You musn't fight to understand it, but rather let it flow in and comprehend it like a picture, not like a checklist, verbally.

It helps to add "In my opinion," before an insult, though. In my opinion.

If I may ask, what is your native langage?
#113TheOriginalMaxPosted 3/31/2012 1:05:43 PM
^Thank you. That explains a lot and I agree with what you say.

My native language is Finnish. Or rather I'm actually bilingual(Russian). We use "weird" and "odd" in place of stupid if we're being grammatically correct. The use of "stupid" and "dumb" have spread due to the popularity of English but there are still personal connotations in that word used. This is clearly something studied with discursive approaches; how languages create reality and the reality differs from language to language. So this really explains my stance. But as you say, maybe a different word would have been better, and the added "my opinion" wouldn't have seemed like such a statement of a perceived fact.
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To be fair, no one has unlimited patience, and at times this board could come close flustering the Buddha.-geekneck99
#114StrelokPosted 4/1/2012 1:16:03 AM
In case of Dutch grammatical FUBARS we simply say they speak like someone from Turkey.

But then, most immigrants from Turkey are not really good at speaking Dutch and Yoda uses more grammatically correct English than they speak grammatically correct Dutch and it makes me sad ;-;
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