I truly feel Capcom killed the real DMC with Devil May Cry 4

#41KiraYamatoDaManPosted 11/13/2012 5:24:08 PM
Ether101 posted...
KiraYamatoDaMan posted...
From: Dark World Ruler | #001
I'm starting to warm up to this game in all honesty, and more and more I think how a DMC5 just wouldnt have worked anyways. They could have put far more effort into Nero and made him interesting character, but instead they made him just another son of Sparda and a clone of Dante personality wise and looks wise. He was the focus of DMC4 but instead of doing a story we were all expecting (like Vergil possessing him, he'd be resurrected some way through Nero) we got an inconsequential plot and a character that was never fleshed out for reasons beyond me.

Then the problem with Dante, he was godly-overpowered in DMC4 hardly even breaking a sweat with any of the villains. It made me think "What villain in a future game that isn't Mundus can actually take him on?". That in combination with the newbie Nero made a perplexing path of where the characters and universe would go in DMC5.



It's not like Sparda himself took on all of Hell.


He had an army with him.


An army of what?
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#42DracozombiePosted 11/13/2012 5:56:03 PM(edited)
_Uwye_ posted...
You sure? Using back-forward motions in the air, 360, "jump-jump-attack" or "jump - dodge - dodge - lock on - lock on" (air teleport) isn't what I'd call the norm in this kind of games. Compare that to the standardized motions in DMC3-4 that often required just the press of one button.

With the downside that the "styles" weren't as deep as they were in DMC3-4. As I said, it's a matter of tradeoffs.

Except that DMC4 had back-forward motions in the air and on the ground (Nero), so its hardly a stretch of the imagination to give Dante that input too. And are you genuinely complaining about double-tapping the dodge/lock-on buttons for unique moves? When you need to do the same exact thing to access specific guns/weapons and the Dark Slayer style in DMC4?

And what about those awkward as hell Pandora inputs, which required different button and analog inputs to execute? I don't see how anyone could argue that those controls are "normal." They're about as unorthodox as you can get in an action game. I just want to use Revenge, not pull off the Dragon Install, for Christ's sake.

Yes, there aren't as many "Style" equivalents in Bayonetta as there are were DMC3. But there aren't as many style equivalents in DMC4 as there were in 3, either. You can't wall run and the "Ultimate" block was removed, for example. Quicksilver and Doppleganger were removed entirely. Crazy combos were axed.

I'm not justifying the removal of the abilities these styles offer players. But I agree with JELIFISH19 in that I would have preferred a more intuitive way to access them. One that didn't require me to shuffle between styles, guns and weapons to use the ability that I want. Defensive/evasive abilities like block/royal block and dash could have easily been mapped to a single button. Press O to block, hold O + a directional input to dash. Release could have been an O+Triangle combination (like Nero's DT abilities). Air trick could be a back-forward+O input on the ground. And all of these controls could have been translated into air combat in exactly the same way.

Swordmaster abilities could have required unique inputs. Back-forward on the ground for prop shredder. Forward in the air for aerial rave. Hell, you could have even added a new swordmaster ability with the former input (aerial back-forward). Gunslinger abilities could have been implemented the same way.

And now, all of a sudden, you don't have to switch between styles at all in order to access a large chunk of Dante's abilities. And that isn't even including inputs like double-tapping forward+attack, or 360+attack. You could map Dance Macabre and other abilities with those inputs.

This issue with that all boils down to comfort. I'm not a big fighting game fan, but the idea of inputting specific directional commands in order to execute specific special abilities sounds perfectly reasonable. Add to that the fact that Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising a utilize such command schemes (the latter of which pulled it off very well, in my opinion) and I don't see why Devil May Cry couldn't adopt this, at least in part.
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#43SlaveBladePosted 11/13/2012 10:04:31 PM
Vault_Zero posted...
I will never understand this. At what point, in a GAME, did game play take a back seat? Read a book or watch a movie for a story?

You want no styles, less options, in a free form combat game like DMC?


Nier. And it benefited greatly for it.
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#44KeimaonlySleepsPosted 11/14/2012 12:47:43 AM
Bad topic.
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#45_Uwye_Posted 11/14/2012 1:59:31 AM
Dracozombie posted...
Except that DMC4 had back-forward motions in the air and on the ground (Nero), so its hardly a stretch of the imagination to give Dante that input too.


Which has nothing to do with the point I'm making and actually supports it.

And are you genuinely complaining about double-tapping the dodge/lock-on buttons for unique moves? When you need to do the same exact thing to access specific guns/weapons and the Dark Slayer style in DMC4?


What? You don't need to double tap to access Dark Slayer. And double tapping to access weapons is hardly the same thing as what I described. Compare the two:

Air Trick: R1+fw+O
Crow teleport: X - R2 - R2 - R1 - R1

And what about those awkward as hell Pandora inputs, which required different button and analog inputs to execute?


You mean the weapon that locks you in place, with its extra modes that need setup since they are slow, with motions that can be done with 360 instead of tapping directions? What about it? Are you seriously comparing it to the multiple moves in Bayo that are supposed to be done in any situation -even dangerous ones- and that can f*** you up if you don't do the motion properly?

They're about as unorthodox as you can get in an action game.


And there are only, like, two moves with those commands, go figure.

Yes, there aren't as many "Style" equivalents in Bayonetta as there are were DMC3. But there aren't as many style equivalents in DMC4 as there were in 3, either. You can't wall run and the "Ultimate" block was removed, for example.


But now you can Mustang and Flipper, and Dreadnaught.

I'm not justifying the removal of the abilities these styles offer players. But I agree with JELIFISH19 in that I would have preferred a more intuitive way to access them. One that didn't require me to shuffle between styles, guns and weapons to use the ability that I want. [other stuff] and I don't see why Devil May Cry couldn't adopt this, at least in part.

[damn you, quote limit]

You, just like Jellifish, don't seem to understand my point. When you want/need to put in the game more moves/abilities that the standard control scheme can't allow you have to come up with something less...uhm...comfortable. There's no right or wrong here because it's a matter of preferences, of trade-offs.

DMC4
Pros: simple standardized motions, more moves
Cons: heavy d-pad usage

Bayo
Pros: everything at once
Con: moveset is a bit reduced compared to DMC4, more complex motions for moves

You and others dislike the style system and prefer the Bayo way, for me and others it's the opposite.

But regarding the DmC control scheme I have no idea how anyone can say it's better or an improvement. What the hell, it has the downside of the DMC4 control scheme (heavy d-pad usage) with the downside of the Bayo control scheme (watered down/gimped styles). Same thing with people that hate the Lock-On. Oh yeah, instead of holding a shoulder button to access just the special moves now you have to hold a shoulder button to access 90% of everything. That's much better!