Did DMC1 have the level of depth that DMC3 had?

#151FireMage7777Posted 12/2/2012 11:56:15 AM
Pesmerga255 posted...
Goldsickle posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
Still being ambiguous with the difference, oh that's right, because you have no clue what you're talking about

Most of the stuff you described are either CSA or just random mechanics that happen to have an on-screen button prompt.

You're just a confused fanboy who doesn't know what's a QTE and slapping it on anything with a button prompt.

And your "you don't know what you're talking about" BS is getting tiring.
I know what I'm talking about, because I can differentiate between QTE, CSA, random on-screen prompt and dial-up mechanics.

Apparently, you can't.
You're like one of those people who called MGS4 "just another shooter" simply because Snake can shoot in over-the-shoulder view.
Or those who called anything with fixed camera "prerendered backgrounds".

I guess you can only resort to this now because you can't prove that Simon Says Events can be a replacement for actual gameplay and that they're supposed to be 'immersing'.

But at the end of the day, I'm still happy people like you never get involved in game development.


Since you're so infinite in your wisdom, would you mind giving a detailed description of the difference between Context Sensitive Actions and Quick Time Events? Complete with examples, of course.


He hasn't done it yet
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This is a "boss" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmIldyRCOkA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
#152SlaveBladePosted 12/2/2012 2:21:33 PM
Context sensitive Action: Perfect blocking in God of War then using a PB move right after.

QTE: boss kills in God of War.
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#153MrStarkillerPosted 12/2/2012 5:53:43 PM
What's all this about GoW?
#154FireMage7777Posted 12/2/2012 5:59:21 PM
MrStarkiller posted...
What's all this about GoW?


Why would we talk about Gears?
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This is a "boss" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmIldyRCOkA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
#155DracozombiePosted 12/2/2012 6:37:43 PM
AHEM. So, back to the topic at hand.

DMC1 had a different sort of depth when compared to 3.

When people say DMC3 was "deep" they mean that Dante had access to an enormous number of abilities and attacks at any one time, each of which gave him great control over his enemies and how he moved around the environment. That, coupled with a few interesting cancel mechanics and expanded aerial gameplay, makes DMC3 a very rich game.

DMC1 gave you much less control over Dante. You weren't as mobile, and you had fewer offensive and defensive options. However, DMC1 was tight. The development team was very in-tune with what Dante was and was not capable of doing, and designed the enemies in the game to challenge and engage him accordingly. Enemies had very large move-lists, varying weaknesses and strengths, and some had unique sweet spots that could be exploited for critical damage. On the flipside, Dante's only effective evasive maneuvers were a dodge roll and jump, the latter of which had very limited i-frames. So you had to seriously familiarize yourself with the enemies and their abilities in order to fight them as flawlessly as possible. This is even more true of the bosses. In many respects, the enemies in DMC1 felt as complex as Dante. The "depth" in DMC1's case stems from the complex and demanding enemies - knowing how to control them and how to dance around their attacks while getting your own in.

To date, no DMC (in my opinion) has enemies quite challenging as the original. DMC4 tried to do so by introducing enemies from the original, but by that point Dante had evolved far beyond what he was capable of in the latter game. Enemies did not follow suit. So while the enemies were more demanding than the duds in 3, they weren't on par challenge-wise with what Dante could do, and didn't feel as interesting or engaging as a result.
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#156GoldsicklePosted 12/3/2012 12:22:20 AM
Pesmerga255 posted...
Since you're so infinite in your wisdom, would you mind giving a detailed description of the difference between Context Sensitive Actions and Quick Time Events? Complete with examples, of course.

Quick Time Events was first coined as a name for interactive cutscenes, where you must pressed the randomized button prompts to proceed or succeed (there are exceptions where the button prompts are not randomized).

Quick Time Events' button prompts normally has nothing to do with the default control scheme.
Let's say that in the default scheme, you press X to attack and B to dodge.
QTE will randomly ask for different buttons or different button combinations.

QTE occurs in a completely scripted sequence that's out of your control.
The only way to proceed is to press the button prompts with no alternate solution.
Being grabbed by a zombie in RE is not a QTE because it occurs in a physical space where there are alternate ways of escaping than just obeying the button prompts.
For example, a partner shooting the zombie to free you.
Or the same time the zombie grabs you, you dropped a grenade and the grenade blast loosens the zombie's grip.

QTE are dependent on button prompts.


On the other hand, one important thing you need to know about Context Sensitive Actions is that button prompts are not necessary.
For a long time, games always had an 'Action Button' where the function changes depending on context.
In games like Resident Evil or MGS, pressing the action/interact button in front of a door opens the door, if pressed in front of a ladder makes the character climb the ladder.
And there was no need for an on-screen button prompt for these.

On-screen button prompts for CSA was added for convenience.

The same with being grabbed by an enemy.
You'll probably get some info on instruction manuals or in-game tutorial about shaking the analog stick (DMC's Enemy Files) or mashing the buttons (RE2 player manual).

For attacks where you mash the button to increase damage, there was also no need for on-screen prompts for that.
Once again, you find out in an instruction manual or game tips.

Some games have a "stealth kill/takedown" CSA where a button prompt appears to let you know you're close enough to the enemy (Batman: Arkham City, Deus Ex: Human Revolution).
But as you can see in multiple Tenchu games, there was no button prompts necessary for this action and it was once again added for convenience.
Some games may have options to turn off the prompts (like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution).

There's more to this but this is what I have for now.
I haven't discussed about QTE for a long time, so all my definition and classification may not be sufficient.

The problem right now is if people are willing to agree with the classification I provided.
Not everyone is willing to be objective or consistent and may change their definition for their own convenience.
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There is no such thing as a "Quick Time Event done right".
A game that has Quick Time Events is a "video game done wrong".
#157derrick112Posted 12/3/2012 8:50:49 AM
Goldsickle posted...
Pesmerga255 posted...
Since you're so infinite in your wisdom, would you mind giving a detailed description of the difference between Context Sensitive Actions and Quick Time Events? Complete with examples, of course.

Quick Time Events was first coined as a name for interactive cutscenes, where you must pressed the randomized button prompts to proceed or succeed (there are exceptions where the button prompts are not randomized).

Quick Time Events' button prompts normally has nothing to do with the default control scheme.
Let's say that in the default scheme, you press X to attack and B to dodge.
QTE will randomly ask for different buttons or different button combinations.

QTE occurs in a completely scripted sequence that's out of your control.
The only way to proceed is to press the button prompts with no alternate solution.
Being grabbed by a zombie in RE is not a QTE because it occurs in a physical space where there are alternate ways of escaping than just obeying the button prompts.
For example, a partner shooting the zombie to free you.
Or the same time the zombie grabs you, you dropped a grenade and the grenade blast loosens the zombie's grip.

QTE are dependent on button prompts.


On the other hand, one important thing you need to know about Context Sensitive Actions is that button prompts are not necessary.
For a long time, games always had an 'Action Button' where the function changes depending on context.
In games like Resident Evil or MGS, pressing the action/interact button in front of a door opens the door, if pressed in front of a ladder makes the character climb the ladder.
And there was no need for an on-screen button prompt for these.

On-screen button prompts for CSA was added for convenience.

The same with being grabbed by an enemy.
You'll probably get some info on instruction manuals or in-game tutorial about shaking the analog stick (DMC's Enemy Files) or mashing the buttons (RE2 player manual).

For attacks where you mash the button to increase damage, there was also no need for on-screen prompts for that.
Once again, you find out in an instruction manual or game tips.

Some games have a "stealth kill/takedown" CSA where a button prompt appears to let you know you're close enough to the enemy (Batman: Arkham City, Deus Ex: Human Revolution).
But as you can see in multiple Tenchu games, there was no button prompts necessary for this action and it was once again added for convenience.
Some games may have options to turn off the prompts (like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution).

There's more to this but this is what I have for now.
I haven't discussed about QTE for a long time, so all my definition and classification may not be sufficient.

The problem right now is if people are willing to agree with the classification I provided.
Not everyone is willing to be objective or consistent and may change their definition for their own convenience.


Wahhhhhhh!! Mommy that game made me press some randomized buttons and makes my head hurt too much!
#158FabuIousPosted 12/3/2012 9:11:10 AM
depth in dmc3? lol you just mashed between the two or three diff preset combos OR million stabs basically gave you an SSS/ enemies were combo fodder. its a single player hack and slash there is no depth.

if you want depth play a multiplayer game.
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#159FireMage7777Posted 12/3/2012 11:11:24 AM
FabuIous posted...
depth in dmc3? lol you just mashed between the two or three diff preset combos OR million stabs basically gave you an SSS/ enemies were combo fodder. its a single player hack and slash there is no depth.

if you want depth play a multiplayer game.


*snickers* Also Sickle, I'll get to your post later, when I'm actually awake
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This is a "boss" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmIldyRCOkA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
#160MrStarkillerPosted 12/3/2012 4:07:39 PM
Mage: Don't you get cute with me, boy. I won't be able to control my hyper weapon.