Did DMC1 have the level of depth that DMC3 had?

#81Gen2000Posted 11/30/2012 6:16:57 PM
Goldsickle posted...
Like how every other hater writes off DmC because of one or two features..


Generally most hated the instant death QTEs in Bayonetta or at least annoyed with it yeah but still love the gameplay mechanics outside of that. On the opposite people create almost a laundry list of issues/problems (either via post or more direct with youtube) with DmC's core gameplay mechanics itself before even getting into the QTE like stuff. Seems like a noticeable difference.
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The Storm Is About To Rage.....
#82mortredcritPosted 11/30/2012 6:23:19 PM
FireMage7777 posted...
Goldsickle posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
Given you have still yet to come up with anything, yes

The "physical gameplay instead of cop-out Simon Says cutscene" was very valid.

When fighting a giant enemy, I'd rather it be like in Shadow Of The Colossus, where from the feet to the head, you do all the climbing on your own, using the in game's physics.
A for the "Colossus" battle in God Of War II, you only go on top of him via scripted cinematics with button prompts.

Even in DMC4, when Dante fights the Savior, they didn't stoop to QTE.
They made it as physical & manual as possible, even without the dynamic physics of Shadow Of The Colossus.


Oh, finally. Now time to rip this apart. And I can do so with one word...immersion

In Shadow Of The Colossus, you are giving the role of someone who has to take out these MASSIVE behemoths. The game delivers a feeling of being there by forcing the player to get to these things by yourself, traverse it by yourself, and kill it, by yourself. It's hammers home that fact you are more or less insignificant in scale compared to these things, QTE's in that case, would've defeated the purpose of immersion..

Now in God Of War II, you are Kratos; a brutal, merciless, god-killing motherf***ING badass. With a couple of button presses on minor enemies you kill them in very brutal ways. And with bosses flat out destroy them in the most visceral ways imaginable. Sure you could just do something like "Press O, to finish off boss in a cutscene" but no, you get a QTE, which immerses you into the role of Kratos. With each button press in said QTE, it gives you the feeling that you are the one responsible for this display of brutality you unleash upon your foe...not some little cutscene, or ending your foe with part of a simple combo. No QTE's in this case would've ruined immersion

Lastly that Savior fight was terrible


In this day of age in video game developing, quite few understand the concept of immersion and the proper use of QTE's. And if you keep repeating the format for how you introduce the QTE, people (who can play video games) catch on fast. So you have to vary up the presentation if you want to continue giving them different experiences.
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#83Jiyuu FalconPosted 11/30/2012 7:36:32 PM
I don't get why there's so much hate on the Bayo QTEs. Sure, you die if you fail, but they were so easy you'd only fail if it was your first time playing and were surprised. Also, there were frequent checkpoints so even if you die, there wouldn't be much to redo. Sure, your rank would suffer, but who the hell does rank runs their first time through? An annoyance, yes, but far from a deal-breaker.
#84GoldsicklePosted 11/30/2012 11:00:40 PM
FireMage7777 posted...
Oh, finally. Now time to rip this apart.

In other words, you totally missed the point that:

"QTE bypasses complex programming".

An actual, complete physical gameplay has more "immersion" & flexibility than some Simon Says gimmick.

And it doesn't matter if failure doesn't result in death.
I'd like a more physical and manual way of dealing with bosses.

That's one thing that drew me to DmC.
The developers don't want to resort to QTE. They are doing everything they can to keep things as "manual" as possible.
Their stance on QTE mirrors my own.
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There is no such thing as a "Quick Time Event done right".
A game that has Quick Time Events is a "video game done wrong".
#85KA_ME_HA_ME_HAPosted 11/30/2012 11:04:03 PM
I really loved some QTE's though. The last one in GOW 3 was pretty cool. I didn't know it kept going as long as you pushed the button, so I ended up punching Zeus's face in for about 5 min.

If done right, QTE's can be fairly good. It's when they get overused that they become bad.
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#86mmSNAKEPosted 11/30/2012 11:07:04 PM(edited)
An actual, complete physical gameplay has more "immersion" & flexibility than some Simon Says gimmick.

That's a case to case dependent. It matters what sort of game you're playing. If you are playing a game which primary role is story telling (walking dead, heavy rain), then I wouldn't say it's bad or that it stray from the feel of the game. In a game like this, it wouldn't work. Or at least I'd feel really disjointed from the experience if they did this in a DMC game. That's me though.
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Beatings will continue until morale improves!
#87NofumasaPosted 11/30/2012 11:08:06 PM
QTEs are great if they lead to multiple scenarios if you suceed, fail, or even a third option. I never liked RE's QTEs though.
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I am Nofumasa Baba.
Brother of Nobufasa Baba.
#88FireMage7777Posted 11/30/2012 11:13:01 PM(edited)
Goldsickle posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
Oh, finally. Now time to rip this apart.

In other words, you totally missed the point that:

"QTE bypasses complex programming".

An actual, complete physical gameplay has more "immersion" & flexibility than some Simon Says gimmick.

And it doesn't matter if failure doesn't result in death.
I'd like a more physical and manual way of dealing with bosses.

That's one thing that drew me to DmC.
The developers don't want to resort to QTE. They are doing everything they can to keep things as "manual" as possible.
Their stance on QTE mirrors my own.


Well, that sounds like a personal problem. I made my point, so whatevs

Side note: Bypasses complex programming. Who's your dealer?
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Still waiting for that comeback Sickle
#89GoldsicklePosted 11/30/2012 11:25:02 PM
mmSNAKE posted...
It matters what sort of game you're playing.

It doesn't really matter what kind of game you're playing.

QTE is nothing more than a "makeshift technology".

Such sequences only give you the illusion of control because all you're doing is just pressing button commands as being displayed on screen, while the game does the rest.

Wouldn't it be better if you're controlling every action of your character, no matter how wild the situation is?

FireMage7777 posted...
Well, that sounds like a personal problem.

Regardless, it's good to know that developers are starting to wake up on this, like how Shinji Mikami talked about reducing QTE during an interview when making Vanquish.
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There is no such thing as a "Quick Time Event done right".
A game that has Quick Time Events is a "video game done wrong".
#90mmSNAKEPosted 11/30/2012 11:30:33 PM(edited)
Bypasses complex programming

When you make a game normally you don't have to create an engine from scratch. Very few companies do because it's very complicated, difficult, and time consuming. So most of the time they use an existing engine and packages for physics, animation etc.

So what they would do for a qte, is put in their animation data which the engine would render. Then they would edit it and make the QTE points as sort of play pause parts. In a lot of cases it's supposed to be plug and play sort of thing. Naturally this isn't always the case, and there is a lot of issues that can happen with animations, especially if you end up modifying the engine for your needs. The sheer amount of issue that can happen is staggering. Gimbal lock can occur (due to lack of quaternions or hardcoding math issues), ALL sorts of memory problems can occur. Etc etc.

Regardless, it's still easier than programming an environment where the user has much more freedom and a lot more input which shapes how game functions. Once you throw in a multitude of user input possibilities, the bug potential skyrockets, not to mention all those issues you could have had with just animating, those can occur now as well.

As an example. Do you see bugs in animated films? You may see occasional bloopers, but how common are those compared to gameplay bugs in games? That should give you a good comparison why that statement holds.

It doesn't really matter what kind of game you're playing.

QTE is nothing more than a "makeshift technology"


It works fine for games which I've listed. If you dislike those games that is your preference. it doesn't make the games bad.
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Beatings will continue until morale improves!