DmC: Devil May Cry

DaAzureGrimoire posted...

I get what you're trying to say, but son, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
If you knew how frame-rate works, then you'd understand that your retorts were weird half-truths.
Frame-rate dips do have many factors (rapid increase in draw calls, extensive physics use in cutscene or in-game, really anything that causes the engine to have to do a large number of calculations at the same time), but multiple enemies on screen will directly effect frame-rate once it becomes too difficult for the engine to maintain the balance, which is always a direct relationship with the hardware. If the hardware can't process enough information fast enough to allow the engine to calculate information to allow the engine to run smoothly, then you'll have some frame-rate issues, among other things.
A game set at 30fps can use all the processing power it would've used for that extra 30fps for the engine, allowing for a slew of other things that can be done (in the case of DmC, the environments and multiple enemies. In the case of Gears of War, the physics and large environments. Arkham City? The entire open world). All of these games have or will have 60fps versions on PC, cause PC has the capacity to be worlds stronger than a console.

Yes, so it's the hardware's fault for not being able to keep up and for being 7 years out of date at this point. Again, frame rate drops decrease speed but other factors lead to frame rate drops. I could try to run Legendary Dark Knight on the PS3/XBOX 360 version of Devil May Cry 4 all I want and the fact that it runs at 60 fps won't make a damn bit of difference because the hardware can't handle it. It'll drop frames like a bat out of hell until it finally grinds to a standstill. I can run Skyrim on a horribly outdated computer and it will be the lack of RAM and other issues that will lead to the 12 to 15 fps. 60 fps has a lot of advantages, but one of them is not magically increasing the RAM, processing power, etc. of the console to accommodate the increase in enemies on screen. Again, the 30 fps is causing lag, lower fluidity, and other problems but it is not causing the amount of enemies on screen to magically decrease.

DmC maintains balance and doesn't fluctuate like a raging bull in a rodeo. It doesn't drop over 40 frames like the PS3 version of Bayonetta does or up to 17 frames like the 360 version of Bayonetta, it doesn't oscillate by 30+ frames like God of War 3 does, and it doesn't drop up to 20 frames for a single boss like MGR does. I actually prefer a locked fps over one that oscillates wildly.
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Currently going "squa squa squa!"
The DmC Demo didn't hurt my butt, it just gave it a rash. The cure? Play Devil May Cry 1, 3, and 4.

mahroflcopter posted...

Kyrylo posted...

mahroflcopter posted...

Kyrylo posted...

After reading all this "how many enemies on the screen" argument, it's pretty cute how pros are coming up with arguments they can beat themselves. Because, this point was never important argument for antis. So let them enjoy their own victory. It like playing chess with myself.

That was one of the main arguments people were using against the UE3 "Oh, we'll only have 3 enemies on screen at a time!!!!!!!!!"

I'm not Pro (just look at my sig), but the game is solid. Calling is terrible (Sonic 06 is terrible; Superman 64 is terrible; Aquaman: The Battle for Atlantis is terrible... DmC is just not everyone's cup of tea) is just being childish at this point.

I'm not saying it's TERRIBLE. It just has many flaws and rather mediocre. It's still solid like GoW, but far from niveau of the best games. It plays fluid, but lacks essence and technical problems dragging it down. I gonna buy it used (probably, cause rent will be deciding factor).

That's all I'm saying as well. Sorry for accusing you, but it seems like most people who are against this game (and for the record, I AM AGAINST THIS GAME as well) say "It's TERRIBLE... WORSE THAN DMC 2!". It's not terrible, I had a hell of a lot more fun with it than I ever did with God of War 3 (I just couldn't stand the combat for whatever reason), and its' miles above what most people were expecting. It's just not a Devil May Cry game.

Wow, I'm a pro, but after reading your post, I must admit that you're one of the most reasonable antis around here...Very good info and stuff, I didn't know the stuff about MGR and Bayo on PS3...

It's funny that some antis are now saying that number of enemies isn't a argument anymore. After the first trailer was shown ( late 2010), that was probably the most used excuse by them, in order to try to justify the game would suck.

I remember several of them saying you couldn't fight against more than 3 enemies at the same time. Well, it's good to see that the videos prove them wrong. XD

So, will you play the full game?

mahroflcopter posted...

DaAzureGrimoire posted...

I get what you're trying to say, but son, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
If you knew how frame-rate works, then you'd understand that your retorts were weird half-truths.
Frame-rate dips do have many factors (rapid increase in draw calls, extensive physics use in cutscene or in-game, really anything that causes the engine to have to do a large number of calculations at the same time), but multiple enemies on screen will directly effect frame-rate once it becomes too difficult for the engine to maintain the balance, which is always a direct relationship with the hardware. If the hardware can't process enough information fast enough to allow the engine to calculate information to allow the engine to run smoothly, then you'll have some frame-rate issues, among other things.
A game set at 30fps can use all the processing power it would've used for that extra 30fps for the engine, allowing for a slew of other things that can be done (in the case of DmC, the environments and multiple enemies. In the case of Gears of War, the physics and large environments. Arkham City? The entire open world). All of these games have or will have 60fps versions on PC, cause PC has the capacity to be worlds stronger than a console.

Yes, so it's the hardware's fault for not being able to keep up and for being 7 years out of date at this point. Again, frame rate drops decrease speed but other factors lead to frame rate drops. I could try to run Legendary Dark Knight on the PS3/XBOX 360 version of Devil May Cry 4 all I want and the fact that it runs at 60 fps won't make a damn bit of difference because the hardware can't handle it. It'll drop frames like a bat out of hell until it finally grinds to a standstill. I can run Skyrim on a horribly outdated computer and it will be the lack of RAM and other issues that will lead to the 12 to 15 fps. 60 fps has a lot of advantages, but one of them is not magically increasing the RAM, processing power, etc. of the console to accommodate the increase in enemies on screen. Again, the 30 fps is causing lag, lower fluidity, and other problems but it is not causing the amount of enemies on screen to magically decrease.

DmC maintains balance and doesn't fluctuate like a raging bull in a rodeo. It doesn't drop over 40 frames like the PS3 version of Bayonetta does or up to 17 frames like the 360 version of Bayonetta, it doesn't oscillate by 30+ frames like God of War 3 does, and it doesn't drop up to 20 frames for a single boss like MGR does. I actually prefer a locked fps over one that oscillates wildly.

its not locked at 30 fps you can make it dip often depending on how you play the game

if you play it as a crazy over the top action game it dips
if you play it like arkham city heavenly sword and other slower games it stays 30 fps

but if I wanted to play a slow game I would not play DMC to do it
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Shin Megami Tensei Imagine us version name maelxich
Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Japanese version name maelxich

^We went over that already.
DMC4 can perform so well at 60fps cause it really doesn't have as much going on as you think. Other than Nero, the enemies and their AI, and pretty scripted Boss fights in small locations, the game didn't have that much going on. MT Framework has little in regards to physics and often times seems like merely a graphical update of a last generation engine.
That doesn't make it a bad engine, cause it does a lot of things well in other areas, but the lack of physics definitely allows for more games to run at 60fps. Engine doesn't have to do as much at once that way. When the engine does have more significance in physics, like in Lost Planet 1 and 2, there's frequent frame-rate drops.
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Formely: Hellfire-Bahamu

EntropyZero posted...

DaAzureGrimoire posted...

^We went over that already.
DMC4 can perform so well at 60fps cause it really doesn't have as much going on as you think. Other than Nero, the enemies and their AI, and pretty scripted Boss fights in small locations, the game didn't have that much going on. MT Framework has little in regards to physics and often times seems like merely a graphical update of a last generation engine.
That doesn't make it a bad engine, cause it does a lot of things well in other areas, but the lack of physics definitely allows for more games to run at 60fps. Engine doesn't have to do as much at once that way. When the engine does have more significance in physics, like in Lost Planet 1 and 2, there's frequent frame-rate drops.

I believe the enemy AI in dmc4 is much better than what ive seen in the DmC demo.
I dunno man, it just seems DmC is catered more to the casuals and taking a big dump on the older dmc fans.

Even if they're gearing it some more towards casuals, isn't this game going to come out with like 7 difficulties? I mean, Hell & Hell Mode seems like it's tailor-made for hardcore gamers.
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Day One buys for 2013: Devil may Cry, Bioshock Infinite, Grand Theft Auto V