I sincerely hope NT goes out of business for this

#181m100t8sPosted 12/20/2012 4:01:41 AM
Kyrylo posted...
m100t8s posted...
Thats pretty stupid man. Ninja Theory just did their job and what Capcom asked for.

And anyway they will still work for Capcom. Keep hoping xD.


you know it's a lie.
1. all decision were made by Tameem, cause he claimed himself "first game I wrote and directed MYSELF"
2. Recently I read article (that btw, was posted here on board) in journal where main designer claimed he didn't want to work with existing character to begin with.
So stop protect NT, their fault is about as big as Capcom's


What? You mean that Ninja Theory just came out of the blue and told Capcom "Hey we want to reboot DMC, Now give us the rights to do it" or something like that?

Capcom brought Ninja Theory, They asked for them to reboot DMC, Make a whole new Dante. And makes DMC westernized.

Watch this bro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03oojyhOwi0

Why hates on Ninja Theory for just doing their job? They didn't show up randomly and 'asked' from Capcom to reboot DMC.
#182Ether101Posted 12/20/2012 4:01:53 AM
Not to mention the Japanese producer suggested that all decisions were 50/50.
---
Gamers have lost their pride.
Complacency can be a sin.
#183KyryloPosted 12/20/2012 4:04:03 AM
m100t8s posted...
Kyrylo posted...
m100t8s posted...
Thats pretty stupid man. Ninja Theory just did their job and what Capcom asked for.

And anyway they will still work for Capcom. Keep hoping xD.


you know it's a lie.
1. all decision were made by Tameem, cause he claimed himself "first game I wrote and directed MYSELF"
2. Recently I read article (that btw, was posted here on board) in journal where main designer claimed he didn't want to work with existing character to begin with.
So stop protect NT, their fault is about as big as Capcom's


What? You mean that Ninja Theory just came out of the blue and told Capcom "Hey we want to reboot DMC, Now give us the rights to do it" or something like that?

Capcom brought Ninja Theory, They asked for them to reboot DMC, Make a whole new Dante. And makes DMC westernized.

Watch this bro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03oojyhOwi0

Why hates on Ninja Theory for just doing their job? They didn't show up randomly and 'asked' from Capcom to reboot DMC.

Because, no studio starts the reboot by claiming all previous franchise was ****. They basically claimed that whole franchise is a mess and they gonna do godlike version of it. Despite even DMC2 sold more than their "best game" Enslaved.
#184m100t8sPosted 12/20/2012 4:09:21 AM
You really think that rebooting DMC was their idea?
But whatever man. If you think so.
#185KyryloPosted 12/20/2012 4:14:11 AM
m100t8s posted...
You really think that rebooting DMC was their idea?
But whatever man. If you think so.


The idea was Capcom's, but performance and development is completely their fault.
#186AcewingXPosted 12/20/2012 5:31:54 AM
There are a few things I'd like to say after seeing all of this (and by all of "this", I mean the entire DmC fiasco and player division).

Whichever side you’re on; everyone can agree on the following:

1. The game is coming out VERY soon, regardless of what anyone says.

2. The actual sales will be the determining factor of whether Capcom was successful or not.


Now I say "Capcom", because they are the ones who commissioned this and gave the go ahead each and every step of the way. The only thing they didn't have a hand in is Tameem's horrendous un-professionalism towards the consumers, but that's a moot point right now, and I say this because everyone has already DECIDED what they will do in the coming new year.
Moving on, I would like to outline some of my personal thoughts; which will include references to other franchise/companies who I see as having similar cases to what's going on here:


The Beginning;

Originally and even now; DmC has been continuously reinforced as a reboot of the DMC franchise, and that a new direction would be taken with this title. Capcom out-sourced this project to Team Ninja for this very reason and believed they were the right choice to hand this off to.

What I want to focus on is the word “Reboot”. That word alone can be interpreted in many ways, but from a business stand-point/Capcom: this sole title would determine the direction of how DMC would evolve as a franchise. It's a testing ground to try new method/mechanics and progress from there, so I guarantee you: if this doesn't flop like some are saying, then it WILL be what Capcom is most likely going to take from with future iterations of DMC.

Currently;

There’s become a rift between people who are pro/anti-DmC, due to various reasons; including how the developer has acted. People still can’t agree to disagree and let bygones be bygones, nor can they let it go. I’m sure everyone is anxious about this game; either to see it meet their expectations as a failure, or to be a good game; those are ultimately the ONLY two out-comes possible, but yet, there’s this constant bickering which has even lead to death threats in some cases or volatility that obviously goes beyond just having a personal opinion about a game no-less. So here’s what I have to say (and obviously I’m just another potential consumer here giving his two cents).

Personal Thoughts;

The demo is out and all that has to be said and shown are already out there, anyone who needs more information about this game can easily obtain what they need to know. The demo itself IS a representation of what DmC will be at release (atleast a good 60-70% of it). Normally a demo can be released at any time, even during alpha stages of a game, but that is not the case here, and considering the time of its release in correlation to the actual games release date: that demo will be a good chunk of the game; this is further enforced by Tameem himself who believes there is nothing wrong with the demo at all.

There’s no reason to make Team Ninja into an antagonist or to demonize them for something many people have already stated as being Capcom’s responsibility, almost entirely. Aside for Tameem running himself and TN into the ground with his pompous attitude; they really didn’t have much of a say in the matter, as Capcom ultimately either nod/shakes their heads to what TN shows them. Hence why this is the DmC you see before you. Although there’s another side to this as well: TN could of just backed out when they had the chance and refused taking on this project, or they could of delayed DmC and taken into account how people reacted to the demo, thereby being able to address those issues, so TN isn’t entirely without fault, but look to Capcom if you want to bite someone’s head off.


Now I’d like to bring in those examples that I mentioned a wee back earlier in this post...which will be continued in the next post!
#187AcewingXPosted 12/20/2012 5:35:30 AM
Change/Evolution/Success;

A lot of big gaming companies now a days and many foreign (Japanese) studios see themselves as being in a “rut” of sorts, as genre’s like action/shooter/FPS have become a BIG theme. There also seems to be this fear as to what worked in the good old days is not good enough for this generation; especially with things getting more advance/expensive, and how consumers are reacting to what’s being put out on the market. SO, obviously, Japan out-sources themselves to “westernize” their creations (to some extent, bastardizing themselves, sorry, but it’s true), while others try and seek a “change” of sorts, to freshen up the scene.

Does anyone honestly think Capcom is the only one trying to “reboot” a franchise and appeal to the more casual audience, thereby widening their niche genre and obtaining more consumers? No, there have been others, such as:


Ninja Gaiden 3 –

Oh yes, I will go there, and I do feel just a tad bit of sympathy for Xbox360 users; who were subjected to the Sigma series, but to each their own and I know plenty who loved the Sigma releases. Now onto the reasoning as to why I mention NG3.

To anyone who still doesn’t know, and yes, this is of great relevance to what I’m about to elaborate on: the original developer for NG1 and NG2 left Tecmo, with most of the staff who also worked on those titles following suit. This ultimately left Tecmo with an individual whom you may have seen his name being thrown/burn/tossed around: Hayashi. He would be the new lead developer of a new team to work on NG3.
The plan was to open up Ninja Gaiden (the franchise) to a wider, more casual player base, thereby increasing sales and allowing new people to join in and ultimately causing their player/fan-base for the series to grow.

However, after all was said and done and the demo was released: people were already skeptical before, but at that point in time, some were basically finished making a decision after playing the demo, on whether or not they’d purchase the game. The actual released game itself was basically reinforcing what was displayed in the demo, so yes, didn’t like the demo: then what made you think you would enjoy the game itself at release?

(Side-Note: This is also why I don’t understand why people find excuses to dismiss demo’s if they don’t turn out favorable, it is NOT like a movie trailer that only spans a minute or two; giving a glimpse of what to expect, no, a demo for a game such as this, which was released pretty late into development of NG3 IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU WILL GO THROUGH IN THE ACTUAL GAME.)

Ultimately, NG3 bombed, very badly I might add compared to its predecessors, which is what it was a DIRECT sequel to. The sales were abysmal for a franchise that although wasn’t as big as Halo; still had a lot of money riding on it; millions
.
Both Tecmo/Hayashi’s team sought to reinvigorate the franchise and sell Ninja Gaiden not only to their core fan-base, but also to newcomers, yet they not only disappointed those who have been with NG since its release, but really didn’t garner that many new people either. (Then they just burned their original fan-base with the Wii-U release, but I digress).

What does that have to do with DmC?

Realistically speaking: absolutely nothing, since those are two different franchises, BUT, the methods of trying to “reboot” them and sell it off to a broader audience is one and the same(imo). The only contrasting factor is that NG3 has already sunk and DmC hasn’t, due to not being released yet, however, the point I’m trying to make with this comparison is this: change if miss-handled can do more irreparable damage than any good, and with how NG3 went; the results were two-fold, they disgraced the fan-base they had and the game itself flopped badly.

DmC seeks to do the same thing NG3 was unable to: create a new image of an already well-known icon. Change can be scary. (And this text limit....)
#188Raziel2112Posted 12/20/2012 5:36:29 AM
Phantom0708 posted...
DarkSymbiote posted...
Phantom0708 posted...
...but they have RUINED the series that I grew up playing.


Capcom had already ruined it before. Twice. While I may be an anti, I do not hope for them to run out of business. At the very least, the people should leave the company and form a new studio without Tameem.


Elaborate on how they ruined it


DMC2, while it was bad, still had a better story than this garbage


DMC4, you played as Nero for half the game, and I liked Nero, and Dante was still the same guy as usual.


One redeeming quality about DMC2 was Dante in Shin Megami Tensi: Nocturno. I played the whole damn game just to get DMC2 Dante and it was totally worth it. Future Dante was the man in that game! GhostRider was badass too.
#189Sevi_neyPosted 12/20/2012 5:39:20 AM
I prefer this Dante. He's way sexy with his new punk vib
#190AcewingXPosted 12/20/2012 5:43:09 AM
Resident Evil 5/6 –

I’m sure everyone knows where I’m going with this one: a horror adventure game at its original/core roots turned Rambo shooter/FPS. Now this is more to exemplify one thing and one thing alone: that Capcom will change whatever is necessary to “garner” to a larger audience. If anyone recall/enjoys the original RE’s, then they should very easily realize how far it’s strayed from what it once was and what it became so well-known for. The “new” direction taken with the current gen RE’s have removed horror entirely and has replaced it with a TPS-esque atmosphere. It’s even worse in 6 as the situations the “main” characters are placed in are so ridiculously blown out of proportion that it becomes more comical if anything

So why compare it to DmC again?

It shifts the momentum of what a franchise was originally known for and adds elements no one asked for. However, the change from horror/adven to action/FPS actually transitioned a lot smoother than many would have expected. Basically RE in name, but not an actual RE in the sense of what it originally was.


Conclusion –

Right, I know I was being a tad negative with most of this, but I never specifically stated that DmC would bomb. There are also some great examples of reboots that were well-received by the fans of the original and actually made a big name for themselves. I just can’t name one at the moment, but I’m sure many of you know what I’m talking about.

In the end (well, since the beginning) of the games announcement + the initial trailer; there’s been this huge division between people who were generally on a consensus that DMC was a great game, and that bickering really doesn’t help anyone except Capcom. Free PR really and it can easily turn some people who were initially “skeptical” about the title to instantly go and buy it, just to prove the dissenters wrong, more so than actually just buying the game to have a good time. Even Tameem’s antics translated to free advertising for the game and Capcom most likely sat back and let him say whatever he wanted; I even believe Tameem was mainly a tool used to get as many people riled up and force’m to pick a side so they’d be much more inclined to purchase/pre-order based on volatile emotions alone, but that’s just me.

Finally, I’d also like to address individuals who believe Tameem/his team are being overly scrutinized for one simple game, but you know what: they weren’t working on a new IP or seeking to patch up an existing one they had experience with. The franchise they accepted wasn’t even one that didn’t sell well in general, no, the reason for most of the criticism because of this “one” game is because it’s part of a BIG franchise, we’re looking at millions of dollars here, with the DMC franchise.

The same lack-luster defense was probably also used for Ninja Gaiden 3, that Hayashi and the game was being overly criticized, when it had to be; we’re talking about icons that have been able to stand on their own since the very beginning and bring in a BIG sum of cash to their companies being changed into something that may/may not bastardize their original design (as well as the fundamental game mechanics themselves). The result in NG3’s case was that it flopped for trying to “change” and Hayashi/new team was shown to be incompetent in being capable of handling the franchise and Tecmo’s lost not only major profits, but had to endure quite the back-lash from fans of the series.

This is why DmC needs to be put under the micro-scope and constantly re-assessed, because in the end: it isn’t just a single game title that no one knows about or isn’t a big deal, no, millions of dollars are a big deal.

The sales alone will determine whether Capcom will continue with this direction or not, so speak with your wallets not your biases (which I’m sure there’s plenty of in my above paragraphs, so I do apologize for any of it or any indirect hypocrisy that I've written, but didn’t mean to >_<).