New Devil May Cry will teach casuals the "magic" of pro gaming

#11KaijinSurohmPosted 1/4/2013 9:27:37 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#12JELIFISH19Posted 1/4/2013 9:52:11 AM
KaijinSurohm posted...
Ugh. I hate Tameem's flawed logic.

I can understand the IDEA of giving new players a chance to play a game with training wheels, but that's what we call a Training Room.

When a casual player (I say this, because this is how I went) sees a pro, they generally think "Wow." and instead of saying "I want a stupidly simple game to make it look like I know what I'm doing", they will instead do RESEARCH on the project, and then PRACTICE the moves over and over.

Why? Because it's a sense of achievement.

Most people don't care about how flashy it LOOKS. They do it because it not only looks cool, but it's balls-breakingly difficult to show off, and thus allows for bragging rights.

I just added another reason why I hate this game.

Edit
New title
DmC: Training Wheels


Core DMC was always extremely simple. You didn't have to do anything remotely complex to beat them on the highest difficulty levels. You didn't even have to change weapons. You could get high style rankings by just playing solidly. Designing the game in such a way that pushes you toward and even requires you to do the completely superfluous things in previous games is not exactly giving you training wheels. It's expecting more from players than before. And it's not like doing the complex things in this are easy.
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I <3 my HRAP EX-SE
SSF4AE + BBCS2 + UMvC3 + MK = Life - Waiting desperately for Skullgirls
#13KaijinSurohmPosted 1/4/2013 9:58:54 AM
JELIFISH19 posted...

Core DMC was always extremely simple. You didn't have to do anything remotely complex to beat them on the highest difficulty levels. You didn't even have to change weapons. You could get high style rankings by just playing solidly. Designing the game in such a way that pushes you toward and even requires you to do the completely superfluous things in previous games is not exactly giving you training wheels. It's expecting more from players than before. And it's not like doing the complex things in this are easy.


So, one demon dodge with a trinity smash for an instant SSS is a good thing?

No, in the actual DMC games, you had to be very careful with what you did, if you wished to pull off insane combos, with correctly JC at specific times, and knowing when to use what weapon, and where. There was nothing simple about the advanced combos.

The CORE of DMC, was designed around stylish demon slaying. If you just played casually, killing as fast as possible, and getting through, you'd be lucky to break A rankings. Rarely you'd see an S, if you didn't get hit, and you wouldn't see it very long, since repeated moves don't build the gauge.

No, DmC:Training Wheels is an accurate statement. They flat out said it, by making the air times longer, and easier, to allow casuals to "Experience what pros do" That's slapping training wheels on.

Also, when and were, in DmC:Training Wheels, does it require you to do more then spam an attack button?
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#14wolf riderPosted 1/4/2013 9:59:22 AM
They just want a game that targets the average gamer who buys based on how flashy the action looks. That's pretty much all Capcom have been doing with their franchises. Use an established series' popularity to generate hype from the fans, make changes to the game to attract the casual gamer, hold back some stuff for DLC, spend heaps on marketing and rake in the cash.
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There was a time when these companies were spoken of with respect and admiration.
#15DethaPosted 1/4/2013 10:16:30 AM(edited)
Designing the game in such a way that pushes you toward and even requires you to do the completely superfluous things in previous games is not exactly giving you training wheels. It's expecting more from players than before. And it's not like doing the complex things in this are easy.

This is not what DmC does. You have been misinformed.
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#16JELIFISH19Posted 1/4/2013 10:25:19 AM
KaijinSurohm posted...
JELIFISH19 posted...

Core DMC was always extremely simple. You didn't have to do anything remotely complex to beat them on the highest difficulty levels. You didn't even have to change weapons. You could get high style rankings by just playing solidly. Designing the game in such a way that pushes you toward and even requires you to do the completely superfluous things in previous games is not exactly giving you training wheels. It's expecting more from players than before. And it's not like doing the complex things in this are easy.


So, one demon dodge with a trinity smash for an instant SSS is a good thing?

No, in the actual DMC games, you had to be very careful with what you did, if you wished to pull off insane combos, with correctly JC at specific times, and knowing when to use what weapon, and where. There was nothing simple about the advanced combos.

The CORE of DMC, was designed around stylish demon slaying. If you just played casually, killing as fast as possible, and getting through, you'd be lucky to break A rankings. Rarely you'd see an S, if you didn't get hit, and you wouldn't see it very long, since repeated moves don't build the gauge.

No, DmC:Training Wheels is an accurate statement. They flat out said it, by making the air times longer, and easier, to allow casuals to "Experience what pros do" That's slapping training wheels on.

Also, when and were, in DmC:Training Wheels, does it require you to do more then spam an attack button?


You never had to do advanced combos at any point in any DMC. You never had to jump cancel. Enemy Step was one of the most expensive moves in DMC4. You also don't start off with everything. The games are designed to allow you to get good score rankings at the beginning of the game when you have nothing. You can get to SSS with just E&I and guns. You can certainly get an S by killing as fast as possible. Killing as fast as possible doesn't mean mashing attack as fast as you can. In addition to that, every game had exploits to get you there fast. In DmC, you're actually required to change weapons. You need to use demon and angel pulls. You didn't actually have to use anything given to you in DMC to do well in it.
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I <3 my HRAP EX-SE
SSF4AE + BBCS2 + UMvC3 + MK = Life - Waiting desperately for Skullgirls
#17SilentS89Posted 1/4/2013 10:28:07 AM
JELIFISH19 posted...
You never had to do advanced combos at any point in any DMC. You never had to jump cancel.


You are implying that DmC requires you to jump cancel. Please tell me where DmC requires you to jump cancel.

If this is not what you are implying, please clarify and explain why you felt it was necessary to point out that DMC doesn't require you to jump cancel if it is not relevant to your point.
#18Dark_EpathyPosted 1/4/2013 10:28:16 AM
There's another side to that coin, though. Some people doesn't see great combo videos and feel compelled to practice. Instead, they get discouraged. Let's be honest here--to play DMC on that sort of level requires a lot of time and energy, and many of us just aren't willing to make the dedication. Not necessarily because we can't, but because we're satisfied with what we can do and eventually know we'll move on.

I don't agree, however, with the instant gratification Ninja Theory and Capcom are trying to give to players. Things looked flashy in past games because they took effort to pull off. That said, it makes sense to appeal to that when it comes to getting new fans. "Baby's first DMC" is crude, but it's apt. And there's nothing wrong with it. The level of depth may not be as high because things are generally easier to pull off, but that doesn't mean there's no depth whatsoever and the game is somehow awful as a result.

But, ultimately, the franchise needs that new blood to be interested in future games and stay for the long term. Many of you will argue that the "casuals" picking this game up won't stay on board, but who's to say? Capcom has to widen out and develop new blood if they want to see DMC continue on and be profitable, especially with the industry changing the way it is.
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Why are you people so hung up on what's canon or not? - freakazaa
#19JELIFISH19Posted 1/4/2013 10:32:15 AM
SilentS89 posted...
JELIFISH19 posted...
You never had to do advanced combos at any point in any DMC. You never had to jump cancel.


You are implying that DmC requires you to jump cancel. Please tell me where DmC requires you to jump cancel.

If this is not what you are implying, please clarify and explain why you felt it was necessary to point out that DMC doesn't require you to jump cancel if it is not relevant to your point.


I didn't say jump cancels are required in DmC. I was saying they were never necessary in the old games like the other guy implied.
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I <3 my HRAP EX-SE
SSF4AE + BBCS2 + UMvC3 + MK = Life - Waiting desperately for Skullgirls
#20SilentS89Posted 1/4/2013 10:32:20 AM
Dark_Epathy posted...
But, ultimately, the franchise needs that new blood to be interested in future games and stay for the long term. Many of you will argue that the "casuals" picking this game up won't stay on board, but who's to say? Capcom has to widen out and develop new blood if they want to see DMC continue on and be profitable, especially with the industry changing the way it is.


I am fine with reaching out to casuals, the problem is when they do it at the expense of the established fans.