For the people who keep complaining that this game is "too easy"...

#101produnerPosted 1/21/2013 7:43:24 PM
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.



You know what i hate the most? A large number of people focus on such business practices and ignore integrity and innovation. A lot of people are leaving profession and dedication for such practices everywhere; its difficult to start anything.
#102SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 7:45:49 PM
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.


I think it's a fine line between difficulty and frustration. I love difficult games, but I've also seen lots of people putting down games I find amazing, like Dark Souls, because they're too difficult. The best approach like lots of people said in this topic would be for the developers to really focus on the difficulty settings, to make them not cheaply easy or cheaply hard. But then again, every game nowadays has focus testing going on. What happens when the focus testers can't handle or DON'T WANT TO handle difficulty? Would you force them to challenge themselves? Would they buy something that should be a hobby or a pastime and turns into a chore?

It's difficult to say where a game stops being challenging and starts being frustrating or when a game stops being challenging and start being way too easy. More study should go into that.
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#103produnerPosted 1/21/2013 7:46:07 PM
soulegion08 posted...
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.


its not detrimental to people, its simply ethical in the business sense. It may be completely wrong with you but its whats right in the business world, we shouldn't forget that. I don't like it if it means lacklusters products but thats what happens.

Ex. McDonalds- arguably the worst trash in fast food industry if you ask me but people love that crap, why its quick, its tasty? and its cheap, really cheap. If you can cut corners why the hell not if it means you make more money?

might be a terrible analogy but thats what im coming up with.


Well that is the reality, we need a change.I personally point that to people's faces to troll and hope for change.
#104soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 7:46:08 PM
produner posted...
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.



You know what i hate the most? A large number of people focus on such business practices and ignore integrity and innovation. A lot of people are leaving profession and dedication for such practices everywhere; its difficult to start anything.


because ideally its what will feed them, clothe them, pay the mortgage/rent and keep you going till the next day. Its the world we live in. sure if resources were unlimited it would be a different sorry but other than that...sorry, no dice.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#105produnerPosted 1/21/2013 7:49:21 PM
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.


I think it's a fine line between difficulty and frustration. I love difficult games, but I've also seen lots of people putting down games I find amazing, like Dark Souls, because they're too difficult. The best approach like lots of people said in this topic would be for the developers to really focus on the difficulty settings, to make them not cheaply easy or cheaply hard. But then again, every game nowadays has focus testing going on. What happens when the focus testers can't handle or DON'T WANT TO handle difficulty? Would you force them to challenge themselves? Would they buy something that should be a hobby or a pastime and turns into a chore?

It's difficult to say where a game stops being challenging and starts being frustrating or when a game stops being challenging and start being way too easy. More study should go into that.


I suggest a medium where you don't force anyone into playing something difficult or casualized, new modes and encouraging noobs to step up their game is a nice start.
#106Dark_EpathyPosted 1/21/2013 7:51:10 PM
I'm all for difficulty levels, myself, I think that's the best option out there, and certainly the most logical. But you'd be surprised at how many people--typically the "elitists"--get up in arms when the very idea is mentioned.

Dark Souls II is probably the best example. I've seen people argue that a hypothetical "easy" mode should not be included, even though the default difficulty would probably still be present. Supposedly it would "kill the spirit" of the game. Disregarding how the PvP would work, I don't see how it would harm the game's integrity when it would still require the best of its players to truly finish it.

Of course, then you have exceptions like this game, where the highest difficulty level still isn't enough to satisfy the most ardent of players. In that case, what can you do but just shrug your shoulders. You can't satisfy everyone.
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~@_@~
Why are you people so hung up on what's canon or not? - freakazaa
#107SandOnMyBootPosted 1/21/2013 7:51:17 PM
It seems that devs this gen decided that video games should appeal to everyone. But that's the problem. Gaming isn't something that everyone should be able to do. It should take a bit of knowledge and skill, not just some mindless tripe that anyone can instantly excel at regardless of skill.

Think of it like sports. Sports require knowledge of the game as well as the physical talent to do it. Now, if pro sports were changed so that any old Joe off the street could do great at it and no one had to feel bummed out if they weren't good at it since it was ridiculously forgiving, then the sports would lose their appeal and the hardcore fans would leave in droves. Example: Sarcastaball.
#108soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 7:54:08 PM
I enjoyed the discussion albeit a bit of hard-headedness involved from others. I take my leave now though, thank you for the enlightened and constructive discussion Yazoo. Its good to meet others with a level head.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#109Kurobuki12Posted 1/21/2013 7:55:17 PM
SHMYazoo posted...
Kurobuki12 posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
Thunderfury posted...
good post OP. don't let the crying and whimpering of the butthurt fanboys get you down.


they're going to be the ones to ruin their own beloved series, just watch... shame that'll be.


The elite mindset in games usually end up limiting games a lot, in my opinion. That's why we have lots and lots of cash-in sequels instead of original ideas. Sadly, that's what happens with the Fighting games genre nowadays, for instance. Look at the majority of (not all of them) EVO players and the hardcore Fighting Community, they're so closed to the public and against change that they completely kill off new ideas as soon as they appear in any other fighting games, like Injustice, with the interactivity with the fighting stage.


Seriously, Injustice, a licensed Mortal Kombat influenced fighter is the most niche and unappreciated game you can think of?
A game that isn't even out and will give the community only two months to play it?

EVO was never "closed to the public". If anything, the public decided to make a stereotype of the niche and didn't know it existed.
As for the "majority" of players, the player and spectator count is growing more and more. We've gotten new favorites every year recently and people are always trying to get new people in.
What's worse s that games like SFIV, MvC3, and Persona are MADE to appeal to casual audiences, and the genre mostly lost relevance because everyone mostly wanted what they recognized, aka CAPCOM.

In the case of fighters, the casual public IS the one to blame.


I didn't say Injustice was the one suffering injustice (hah! I had to say it!). It was just an example. I know EVO is growing every year, but it's an expected growth that isn't as substantial as the big businessmen would strive for. I think the fighting community is absurdly elitist and fighting games with a BIG focus on low frames and stuff like that will end up killing it in the long run, like it happened for a while before Street Fighter IV revitalized it. My opinion, though, take it as you will. I understand your point of view, though I disagree with it.


Those big businessmen also gave us SFxT, with it including disc-locked content and paid DLC for significant aspects of gameplay. That's a HUGE negative.

Heck, I'm not even gonna argue with the "snooty nerds" card. Elitism isn't objectively bad. Its just like actual sports, while we should allow and support new players, if you're saying the opinion Charles Barkley doesn't have more worth than them for the average opinion, you're speaking nonsense.

Also, we had interactive areas and realistic levels in elevation for a decade, just they usually end up as crap since the mechanics aren't completely redone to fit the ENNOVASHIONZ. Which would alienate even the mainstream audience.

Also SFIV only really revitalized what was already popular, actual original and niche fighters? Still die in a few months, if that. Even Skullgirls is more indie gaming has grown more mainstream and Mike Z gets popular player hype.
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#110zhaoyun99Posted 1/21/2013 7:58:58 PM(edited)
If you want a PERFECT example of a hardcore game that satisfied both hardcore and newcomers are probably Hard Corps Uprising. Arcade mode kicked everybody asses. That's why there is Rising Mode which had the same difficulty but you can used your upgrade to make the game easier. Easier doesn't goshly easy like this game. It might reduce 25% difficulty with all the upgrade and with Konami Code for 30 lives (You have to buy it with the upgrade points you earned through beating the stage after using the code though). The game still hard but still beatable with the casual with all the upgrade.
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