For the people who keep complaining that this game is "too easy"...

#131TopdrunkeePosted 1/21/2013 8:35:20 PM
One of my favorite game series is Silent Hill, and you see this a lot. The most fervent of purists seem to be of the mind that enjoying the original games meant you were "better." You were above everyone else if you "got" it. And that type of attitude is definitely there in all media.

The hardcore Silent Hill purists are nauseating because of their conflicting opinions that are at odds with what they claim. They hate all SH games that aren't the original three yet the original three don't even contain the same themes, or style so it just makes the fanboying over that series come off as even more obnoxious than it really should be.

I'm of the thought that Silent Hill 4 The Room was the game that carried more of the spirit of the original two than 3 did.
The only reason SH2 came out the way it did is because they purposely went out of their way to not make it similar to the original. Yet the fans always want every SH to be an exact copy cat of SH2. (Killer7 does SH2 better than SH has ever did.)
SH3 actually dumbed down the horror and made more obtuse by trying to pass it off as Heather's hallucination.
SH4 continued with the cosmic horror aspects that were prevalent in SH1 & 2 but took it in another direction.
Which is what sequels should do. This is also why I have no problem with RE6.
Yeah the story is crap but I've only played Resi Evils for the gunporn anyway and RE6 does not disappoint.

A lot of people forget that the PS1 era hardly had any decent shooters which is why games like Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil had a much bigger audience back then.
Most of their former audience eventually drifted towards Tom Clancy or Gears of War once this gen came around. RE6 is really the only current gen RE that compares to and is much better than Gears. Gears 1 was a much better RE5 than Resi Evil 5 was, lol.
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#132Dark_EpathyPosted 1/21/2013 9:01:30 PM
yet the original three don't even contain the same themes, or style so it just makes the fanboying over that series come off as even more obnoxious than it really should be.

You're right, but, in terms of design, the original three are very closely related. You have narrow corridors, a lot of darkness, the same camera for all three, similar combat mechanics, a lot of map referencing, etc.

They just run the same way. I suspect that's what the purists want out of the series. They're not necessarily more scary, though. I find SH4:TR to be a lot more oppressive than its predecessors. Maybe that's because that was the first game in the series I played, but it strikes me as just really dark. I never feel safe playing that game.
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#133Psychofang12001Posted 1/21/2013 9:07:44 PM
I'm a bit surprised I haven't heard this but maybe hardcore gamers who can play games at the highest difficult setting just are too good for games these days? Like maybe overdosed on difficulty to the point where hardly anything is challenging anymore
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#134SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/22/2013 4:51:00 AM
Psychofang12001 posted...
I'm a bit surprised I haven't heard this but maybe hardcore gamers who can play games at the highest difficult setting just are too good for games these days? Like maybe overdosed on difficulty to the point where hardly anything is challenging anymore


That's a nice point you brought up. I can only imagine someone who could finish Battletoads, Contra with no problems must be very bored with the gaming industry today, since they try to hold your hands every chance they get, with tutorial teaching you how to jump, how to attack, and stuff like this.
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#135RockmanALPosted 1/22/2013 5:02:07 AM
sworder posted...
DMC is a difficult series for people that like the challenge.

If NT wants to make casual games, go ruin other series and not DMC.


an example Rockman games are easier, but they make it into another series, not reboot it

and I like challenging games which is why i like DMC

you want more casual/easy games? go to those androids and apples stuff

I see everyone along my community play those games, hah.
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#136mahroflcopterPosted 1/22/2013 5:41:58 AM
The problem is lies in that DmC tried catering to both audiences AND the alienated fanbase and failed to do so on all accounts.

Devil May Cry 1 was released on a console where budgets averaged 1 to 5 million per game and ended up selling nigh 3 million copies (2 million within the first few month). So no, it's profit margins were not low. In fact, it was so successful that it lead to...

Devil May Cry 2: It was a rush job due to the success of Devil May Cry 1 which they wanted to capitalize on, which is why Hideki Kamiya and Shinji Mikami weren't apart of the development process (by all accounts, they didn't even know it was being made until they saw it being released). Devil May Cry 2, by all accounts, wasn't even a Devil May Cry game until the last 20 to 30 percent of development since the game was originally a new IP. Hideki Itsuno (the new director) was brought in so late and was so disgusted with the results that, according to Reuben Langdon (voice actor and motion capture of Dante in 3 and 4 and someone who worked with Itsuno), he refuses to even admit the game exists. So that had nothing to do with trying to expand the fanbase.

Devil May Cry 3 was actually made by the same exact team (so it was Hideki Itsuno again) that made Devil May Cry 2... only this time they weren't brought in to the development process extremely late, it wasn't a rush job, and they were given a great amount of freedom to reshape Devil May Cry 3 into a true successor to the first Devil May Cry.

Devil May Cry 3 SE was only easier in the NA release since someone on the Dev team had the brilliant idea of "Well, the NA market criticized DMC 2 for being too easy... so we'll just make Normal mode the Hard mode; Easy mode the Normal Mode; and so on". Also, SE editions are par for course with Capcom.

Devil May Cry 3 was most certainly NOT the biggest release of the franchise. In fact, for the longest time, it was the worst selling due to the amount of backlash the Devil May Cry 2 got, which translated into weariness of Devil May Cry 3. It's only recently that Devil May Cry 3 overtook Devil May Cry 2 in sales.

Devil May Cry 4 wasn't targeted towards a younger market... it was targeted towards the rather large female audience Devil May Cry has. That's why Devil May Cry 4 has brighter visuals, less blood and gore, less "scary" designs, and an overall lighter approach to the story on top of having a love story since Producer Kobayashi believed "Females don't like scary things". However, even that wasn't why Nero was introduced. No, Nero was introduced for the sole reason of implementing the Devil Bringer, which was an idea that they came up with during Devil May Cry 3's development but couldn't implement not only due to hardware limitations, but also because "We couldn't think of a reason why Dante would suddenly sprout a demonic right arm".

Also, about the development time: Capcom pushed back the deadline THREE TIMES as the originally wanted a mid 2007 release, then a fall 2007 release, then a winter 2007 release, and finally went with a February 2008 release.

All Devil May Cry games have had backtracking... they just decided, for whatever reason, to not even attempt to hide this fact for DMC 4. In regards to concept art: There are tons of weapons and enemies that didn't make it into the game, not environments. But if you know anything about the dev process, you'd know that just because there is concept art for it doesn't mean it was ever going to be implemented or that there are any number of reasons why the content was cut.

Please, for your own sake, do some research before acting like you know what you're talking about.
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#137SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/22/2013 5:58:05 AM
mahroflcopter posted...
Please, for your own sake, do some research before acting like you know what you're talking about.


Good post overall, but I think you didn't look at it with a business point of view. You had a too optimistic point of view, in my opinion, an optmistic way of thinking of the development process of games and specially the development of the more recent entries (DMC3 and 4) of the franchise. I never claimed everything I said was what happened, I just tried to think logically what Capcom was trying to achieve with each entry in the franchise based on what we played, what the share holders would want (since money is the first thing that comes to mind to them) with a few actual facts. I never claimed DMC3 was the best selling of the series, I said that it was DMC4 right there in the first post. DMC1 didn't profit that much, it was stated by both Kamiya and Capcom (look at Kamiya's twitter history, you'll see).

You're correct that all games have a lot of concept arts that are discarded, and it's normal in a creative process to come up with stuff that doesn't end up in the final version, but in this case it wasn't just weapons. The game had lots of problems during the development, like the budget being cut, hell, Dante wouldn't even be in the game at first, it would be only Nero.

The Devil Bringer statement is correct, they said they were limited by the PS2 hardware and couldn't come up with a way to have Dante with it in DMC3.
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#138AsimLeonheartPosted 1/22/2013 5:58:42 AM
We know they targeted this game towards the casuals and noobs. Ironically they were betrayed by their beloved casuals because nobody bought it and they lost the original hardcore fans in the process as well. Oh the tragedy or maybe it is justice?. The game has flopped in the UK by selling only one third of DMC4 and is destined to flop in Japan. It may sell a little in US but that is it; it may not be even reach 2 million. That is why CAPCOM and NT are silent about the sales.
#139TheDromaderPosted 1/22/2013 6:17:53 AM
SHMYazoo posted...
... have you thought about the possibility of you not being the target audience for the game these days, when the industry wants the casual-angry birds audience?


Yes, and thats why its a problem, expecially with a game that calls itself DMC.

Heck, its a problem with MOST games these days regardless of theyr legacy, its like were going backwards thanks to people having unreal income demands and the goal of achieving them with as little effort as possible.
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#140Narugarex13Posted 1/22/2013 6:44:55 AM
It's not whether people claim they are professional or not in a single player game, it's the sense that the game is actually worth the bucks.

Games even way back in the 80s cost 30ish bucks and that sh*t steep... now games costs double or even triple (i.e. new release = 90+ bucks...). DmC's easy difficulty makes re-playability feel empty with little to no goal to get to. Everything goes on very quickly and the game's lifetime diminishes in an instant, leaving you wondering whether the bucks you spend really worth it or not.

With prices hitting 85$ on PSN, I'd aim for a game that'll last me at least half a fiscal year to entertain me whenever I don't have anything else to do. DMC1 surprisingly still kept me entertained to this day, with over 60ish hours in total for the past 2 years of re-playing it on the good old PS2. Back when I got it in 2001 for 21 bucks, it got me frustrated due to the difficulty but over time I realized the challenge prolongs the game's longevity.

DmC opened up to a broader set of audience but there's so many formulas that are misguided to actually make the game worth the purchase. On the one hand, it's understandable that NT/ capcom tried to appeal to broader audience but, again, they took many unnecessary steps that could be omitted to improve many other aspect that the current "finalized product" are missing.

The easy difficulty is probably caused by the minor uproar in NT's previous game 'Heavenly Sword' where the game last for roughly 6 hours, 3 being the final boss battle lacking any checkpoints here and there along with prolonged cutscenes. This however does not justify the nerf of difficulty as to appealing to wider audience.


"Let's face the facts, DMC has never made that much of a profit for Capcom in the past (DMC4 being the highest seller in the series, yes, even more than dear ol' 3, despite not being the best game, in my opinion). That's why Capcom tried a new approach with EVERY new game in the series, trying to make it a big hit. "

The biggest utter mistake that capcom made. They got greedy. It's understandable that in this state of economy, profit intake is a horrendously difficult achievement and that they need to make adjustments to stay afloat. However, game prices have seen an increment with each passing year and sales figure within 2.5 million copies should be more than enough to cover enough production cost and a sizable profit rate for a game.

DMC4 tried something fresh with Nero's addition in the established and loved gameplay mechanic and challenge, enabling both newcomers and fans alike to enjoy the game's glory that is akin to the original release of the game. DmC simply rehashed many of the used mechanics while stripping away the key aspect that makes the game flow. The lack of several key mechanics that have made the series a staple in the genre along with horrendous dialogue in certain "badass moments" for the protagonist made playability feel clunky. I mean, why remove what isn't broken or worse, why remove what made the game more accessible?

Previous DMC titles gave newcomers "automatic" setting where they will be demonstrated the move sets and flow of the game whilst playing the game, thereby enabling them to feel the increasing difficulty as they progress. DmC simply tried to gain new fans' liking by making the game less of a challenge, giving little to no goal to achieve.


"I laugh at how people call themselves professional by wasting time in a game while they practically achieve nothing."

Video games are like sports, it's for your enjoyment. There's a goal that you want to reach in both respects, something that makes that enjoyment appeal to you as you crave for more. In DmC's case, there's little to no real goal that could be set for your money's worth due to the lack of challenge, ergo the game's appeal will be achieved at breakneck pace, killing it's lifespan for the 60 - 80ish bucks you spent to get it.