For the people who keep complaining that this game is "too easy"...

#81produnerPosted 1/21/2013 6:14:20 PM
SHMYazoo posted...
Kurobuki12 posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
Thunderfury posted...
good post OP. don't let the crying and whimpering of the butthurt fanboys get you down.


they're going to be the ones to ruin their own beloved series, just watch... shame that'll be.


The elite mindset in games usually end up limiting games a lot, in my opinion. That's why we have lots and lots of cash-in sequels instead of original ideas. Sadly, that's what happens with the Fighting games genre nowadays, for instance. Look at the majority of (not all of them) EVO players and the hardcore Fighting Community, they're so closed to the public and against change that they completely kill off new ideas as soon as they appear in any other fighting games, like Injustice, with the interactivity with the fighting stage.


Seriously, Injustice, a licensed Mortal Kombat influenced fighter is the most niche and unappreciated game you can think of?
A game that isn't even out and will give the community only two months to play it?

EVO was never "closed to the public". If anything, the public decided to make a stereotype of the niche and didn't know it existed.
As for the "majority" of players, the player and spectator count is growing more and more. We've gotten new favorites every year recently and people are always trying to get new people in.
What's worse s that games like SFIV, MvC3, and Persona are MADE to appeal to casual audiences, and the genre mostly lost relevance because everyone mostly wanted what they recognized, aka CAPCOM.

In the case of fighters, the casual public IS the one to blame.


I didn't say Injustice was the one suffering injustice (hah! I had to say it!). It was just an example. I know EVO is growing every year, but it's an expected growth that isn't as substantial as the big businessmen would strive for. I think the fighting community is absurdly elitist and fighting games with a BIG focus on low frames and stuff like that will end up killing it in the long run, like it happened for a while before Street Fighter IV revitalized it. My opinion, though, take it as you will. I understand your point of view, though I disagree with it.


I think that devs and the community of "elitists" should encourage casual players into adapting to play anything at high level and acknowledge the existence of it. Pointing out how fun it is to grind, improve and develop new tech is a nice start.
#82soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:16:12 PM
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...
produner posted...
Skipped all of the meaningless text. Games are based on challenge, And a video game developer should always focus on making a game that is fun and up to the standards, more difficulty= more fun; people enjoy challenge more and the industry should encourage players to play on higher difficulties.

I don't know why, but your topic somehow is implying that you want to justify DmC's lack of difficulty to say that the game is better with this level of difficulty and its not on of the cons; in other words overrate the game.


i dont even think that was impled, not only did you skip all the text, which is what you wrote, it seems you only looked at the topic to formulate your response. please read it before actually responding, posts like these do nto contribute to the topic, which imo is a well constructed topic. Im not sure how much you understand of business ethics but it seems you know absolutely nothing.


proper games>business ethics. Everything is corrupted and turned into business because of narrow minded people like you.

DMC was successful and an icon because of its gameplay and challenge, and the soul's series is no exception.Casualization is ok, but for a limit. They should encourage players and not limit other players with the forced level of difficulty; that is why there is easy mode, chain combos, easy automatic in DMC3. There is no need to force the players to play difficult games or easy games.


llol? im narrow minded?ok, sure right, says the individual who cant see the fact that, the game industry is there to make money. THAT IS A FACT. at the end of the day, they count up their figures and balance it with their expenditures, to see if they made a profit.

If they could sell your soul to you they probably would if it meant making money. A company is there to make money by selling products, even if it isnt a quality product, that is their job. to sell it. Do you simply think that devs, artists, programmers, directors, do what they do because its fun? or its their passion? while it may be their passion to be creative, their job is to turn such creativity into a career that will pay the bills and put money in their accounts. Its a simple fact of life, money makes the world spin. if you dont have it, you get nothing. If money wasnt an issue, every game would be the best game ever because no one needs the money, and they can get the best artists, the best programmers, the best everything, to make that AAA title.

stop living in your fantasy world where you think games are made for you to have fun.


That is why you have a narrow mind. I stated already that most people look for money first, that is a simple mindset and off point. Example: compare call of duty to other dedicated game developers that made proper games like soul's series and look at bioshock infinite. Money is essential for every studio but that doesn't mean dumping the gameplay and quality because its happening with the marketing.


yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#83soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:18:00 PM
cont.

the fact you keep attacking me simply because i understand what goes behind the scenes is juvenile. im not the one that sets standards and trends in the gaming industry so dont be so offensive simply because i know abit more whats going on than you do.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#84SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:19:07 PM
Ether101 posted...
soulegion08 posted...
Ether101 posted...
The problem here is that this has nothing to do with the share holders at all. Capcom's president just up and decided one day that DMC wasn't making him enough money in the west despite it being vastly more popular over here and being the highest selling game in the franchise. DMC4 soled anywhere from 2.35 million to 2.7 million units, I doubt that there's that many elite DMC players on the planet. DMC had a nice sized fandom so this whole idea of the elite is nothing but backhanded demonetization.


thats not how a company works. if it involves spending and return, those who have put money into said company have as much right as they put in into the company. at most the current president might control a large portion of the company with shareholders who collectively own a portion to total 100%, as to how much each holds I dont know, but the president doesn't hold all the power simply because he is the president.


Except the share holders have nothing to do with the current predicament. If they did then we would have seen articales about it just like we've gotten when stuff like this has happened with EA and Square-Enix.


It's always about the share holders man. Capcom, even though they haven't had a resounding success since Resident Evil 5, is one of the biggest companies in the game industry.

Capcom in 2011 was the 4th biggest brand in the game industry in Japan, only behind Namco Bandai, Nintendo and Square Enix. It was the 13th name in USA.

source: http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/market.html

Do you think a company this big operates on creativity alone?
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#85SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:20:57 PM
produner posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
Kurobuki12 posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
Thunderfury posted...
good post OP. don't let the crying and whimpering of the butthurt fanboys get you down.


they're going to be the ones to ruin their own beloved series, just watch... shame that'll be.


The elite mindset in games usually end up limiting games a lot, in my opinion. That's why we have lots and lots of cash-in sequels instead of original ideas. Sadly, that's what happens with the Fighting games genre nowadays, for instance. Look at the majority of (not all of them) EVO players and the hardcore Fighting Community, they're so closed to the public and against change that they completely kill off new ideas as soon as they appear in any other fighting games, like Injustice, with the interactivity with the fighting stage.


Seriously, Injustice, a licensed Mortal Kombat influenced fighter is the most niche and unappreciated game you can think of?
A game that isn't even out and will give the community only two months to play it?

EVO was never "closed to the public". If anything, the public decided to make a stereotype of the niche and didn't know it existed.
As for the "majority" of players, the player and spectator count is growing more and more. We've gotten new favorites every year recently and people are always trying to get new people in.
What's worse s that games like SFIV, MvC3, and Persona are MADE to appeal to casual audiences, and the genre mostly lost relevance because everyone mostly wanted what they recognized, aka CAPCOM.

In the case of fighters, the casual public IS the one to blame.


I didn't say Injustice was the one suffering injustice (hah! I had to say it!). It was just an example. I know EVO is growing every year, but it's an expected growth that isn't as substantial as the big businessmen would strive for. I think the fighting community is absurdly elitist and fighting games with a BIG focus on low frames and stuff like that will end up killing it in the long run, like it happened for a while before Street Fighter IV revitalized it. My opinion, though, take it as you will. I understand your point of view, though I disagree with it.


I think that devs and the community of "elitists" should encourage casual players into adapting to play anything at high level and acknowledge the existence of it. Pointing out how fun it is to grind, improve and develop new tech is a nice start.


That's one way of looking into it. Elitists tend to be very protective of their game franchises. They don't like it getting "too" popular.
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#86produnerPosted 1/21/2013 6:20:59 PM
soulegion08 posted...



yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.


You see my point now? DS is one of the best games, even though its not the best at generating money. Its up to the person were he wants to make something proper, has a meaning and to innovate or become a $$ whore.
#87boinybunnyPosted 1/21/2013 6:21:16 PM
I'm inclined to agree with you TC, in that DmC targets a much more casual market than the previous DMC games. From a business standpoint - it DOES make sense to do this, but the transition could have been handled a lot better.

To cut a long story short, as time goes on, development costs for all games are exponentially increasing. To make an extreme profit 10 years ago, a few million copies would have done it for most titles - nowadays, it might not even break even. Development studios all over the world are being shut down due to the failure of a single game to break even.

The result? Traditional 'niche' games which have no broad appeal in the market are no longer viable to make or sell. All such games need to be somewhat transformed to have broader appeal. RE is an excellent example. As soon as Capcom moved into the much larger action genre, and away from slow/survival/horror (My Little Pony is probably more scary than RE5), sales increased dramatically. Dead Space is now rolling the die - we'll soon find out how well shoehorning in coop and gunfights against human enemies works for EA - who claim that the paltry 2 million copies sold for Dead Space 2 is not enough to sustain the franchise.

DmC is Capcom's attempt to broaden the market for DMC (thus their original 5 million target) - but it seems to have backfired in almost every conceivable way for them. as a result, I don't think we'll be seeig another DMC game (from Capcom or NT)

So yes, I don't believe that hardcore H&S gamers are the target audience - I'm not sure who is though...
#88produnerPosted 1/21/2013 6:26:06 PM
SHMYazoo posted...


That's one way of looking into it. Elitists tend to be very protective of their game franchises. They don't like it getting "too" popular.


Nope, its sometimes but in the fighting game community, more players= more competition, new tech, more rewards and events and better games.Also in DMC, more players= new discoveries and larger community that is easier to access.

It is the publishers like capcom that choose to spoil casual players instead of encouraging them. I my self see alot of thigh level play and i respect that, some casual players take it personally and belittle pros.
#89SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:26:27 PM
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...



yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.


You see my point now? DS is one of the best games, even though its not the best at generating money. Its up to the person were he wants to make something proper, has a meaning and to innovate or become a $$ whore.


It goes back to one of the early posts, though. These share holders don't even play games, they don't care if it's fun, or better than the last game. The first and only question they'll ask if someone pitches a new idea of a game in a certain franchise, or a new franchise as well, is "Will it sell?"

That also happens in any other business out there. It's a shame really, I wish they had an artistic integrity to it, but it's not what happens when a company gets this big.

The only true way of dealing with companies like these is to vote with your wallet and don't talk about it, and that's why I think complaining over and over in this forum is not only bad for those that like the game, but it's also bad for the haters, since it makes it stand out in the long run.
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#90AFreebyPosted 1/21/2013 6:28:56 PM
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.
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