For the people who keep complaining that this game is "too easy"...

#91soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:29:49 PM
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...



yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.


You see my point now? DS is one of the best games, even though its not the best at generating money. Its up to the person were he wants to make something proper, has a meaning and to innovate or become a $$ whore.


no you still are not making a valid claim because you do not understand. no matter how attractive the game may be, how fun people find it, in the end its about how much money its willing to rake in for the people who invested money into it. its not a "fun" factor, its a money factor and thats how things work in a business. nobody is going to do work for free, people expect to get paid and companies expect to turn profits, its a cold fact and you have to deal with it.

Im not sure how old you are but it doesnt seem you are competent to understand business practices. just because it isnt right doesnt mean its not ethical. I leave you with that.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#92SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:32:10 PM
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#93soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:33:02 PM
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


I will agree with you on this statement, because those are companies that produce high quality content, but most of the time they end up being in financial straits. Its very admirable to see that and also very rare.

Its simply how our world works, maybe in later yeas things will change but this is the reality we live in now.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#94produnerPosted 1/21/2013 6:33:28 PM
soulegion08 posted...
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...



yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.


You see my point now? DS is one of the best games, even though its not the best at generating money. Its up to the person were he wants to make something proper, has a meaning and to innovate or become a $$ whore.


no you still are not making a valid claim because you do not understand. no matter how attractive the game may be, how fun people find it, in the end its about how much money its willing to rake in for the people who invested money into it. its not a "fun" factor, its a money factor and thats how things work in a business. nobody is going to do work for free, people expect to get paid and companies expect to turn profits, its a cold fact and you have to deal with it.

Im not sure how old you are but it doesnt seem you are competent to understand business practices. just because it isnt right doesnt mean its not ethical. I leave you with that.


Yeah captain obvious, and FYI not all people have that mindset of income first. Read the previous post from TC and others.
#95Dark_EpathyPosted 1/21/2013 6:35:02 PM
I remember I made a post here once where I listed all of the components of the type of hardcore game people here wanted. For me, it was completely absurd--I listed things like every enemy kills you in one hit, that there were no checkpoints, that there were no save points, that the game would punish you for making even the smallest mistake, that it would not allow you to use items, etc.

People said they were completely fine with that. To each his own, but that's not feasible in the market today.

The above would have worked for a NES game (something like the original Ninja Gaiden), when games were largely side-scrolling affairs where the goal was to get from point A to point B, and, if you were good, you could finish a game in a couple of hours.

But something like that won't make any money nowadays. It definitely won't be profitable enough to justify the resources that would be spent trying to make it high-quality. And before someone mentions Demon's Souls or its successor, neither one is anywhere close to what I described above.

It doesn't really sound to me like people want difficult games. It sounds to me like they want punishing games. They're two different things, in my opinion, but if you want something like that, you may as well look to the indie scene. Big developers can't afford to take risks creating big-budget games that won't sell.
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~@_@~
Why are you people so hung up on what's canon or not? - freakazaa
#96soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:37:22 PM
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...
produner posted...
soulegion08 posted...



yet look at how much a COD game will rake in as opposed to a DS game. yes DS is a fantastic, game, i love it to death myself, but COD will always make more money because it caters to a wider audience that can jump right into it and play. the souls series has its own niche demographic that will support it because the game not only presents a challenge, but its also tough, and is similar to old style games where if you die you have to backtrack again and do it again.

I dont even see why you brought up a game thats not even out yet.


You see my point now? DS is one of the best games, even though its not the best at generating money. Its up to the person were he wants to make something proper, has a meaning and to innovate or become a $$ whore.


no you still are not making a valid claim because you do not understand. no matter how attractive the game may be, how fun people find it, in the end its about how much money its willing to rake in for the people who invested money into it. its not a "fun" factor, its a money factor and thats how things work in a business. nobody is going to do work for free, people expect to get paid and companies expect to turn profits, its a cold fact and you have to deal with it.

Im not sure how old you are but it doesnt seem you are competent to understand business practices. just because it isnt right doesnt mean its not ethical. I leave you with that.


Yeah captain obvious, and FYI not all people have that mindset of income first. Read the previous post from TC and others.


because this is how many times i have to spell it out for you before you understand. ive already read Yazoo's posts. he makes sense because i literally said the same thing he did albeit smaller in post. its you simply looking through rose-colored glasses and not seeing things for what they are.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!
#97AFreebyPosted 1/21/2013 6:38:16 PM
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.
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Before me things create were none, save things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Official Dark Emperor Mundus of the DmC board
#98SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:38:51 PM
boinybunny posted...
I'm inclined to agree with you TC, in that DmC targets a much more casual market than the previous DMC games. From a business standpoint - it DOES make sense to do this, but the transition could have been handled a lot better.

To cut a long story short, as time goes on, development costs for all games are exponentially increasing. To make an extreme profit 10 years ago, a few million copies would have done it for most titles - nowadays, it might not even break even. Development studios all over the world are being shut down due to the failure of a single game to break even.

The result? Traditional 'niche' games which have no broad appeal in the market are no longer viable to make or sell. All such games need to be somewhat transformed to have broader appeal. RE is an excellent example. As soon as Capcom moved into the much larger action genre, and away from slow/survival/horror (My Little Pony is probably more scary than RE5), sales increased dramatically. Dead Space is now rolling the die - we'll soon find out how well shoehorning in coop and gunfights against human enemies works for EA - who claim that the paltry 2 million copies sold for Dead Space 2 is not enough to sustain the franchise.

DmC is Capcom's attempt to broaden the market for DMC (thus their original 5 million target) - but it seems to have backfired in almost every conceivable way for them. as a result, I don't think we'll be seeig another DMC game (from Capcom or NT)

So yes, I don't believe that hardcore H&S gamers are the target audience - I'm not sure who is though...


Good post. While I like the game, what you said is a valid point of view and could be a nice look of what's going to be the aftermath of this game's release. I too think it's clear that Niche games are dying because of absurd product costs and expectations from game companies.
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#99SHMYazoo(Topic Creator)Posted 1/21/2013 6:40:57 PM
Dark_Epathy posted...
I remember I made a post here once where I listed all of the components of the type of hardcore game people here wanted. For me, it was completely absurd--I listed things like every enemy kills you in one hit, that there were no checkpoints, that there were no save points, that the game would punish you for making even the smallest mistake, that it would not allow you to use items, etc.

People said they were completely fine with that. To each his own, but that's not feasible in the market today.

The above would have worked for a NES game (something like the original Ninja Gaiden), when games were largely side-scrolling affairs where the goal was to get from point A to point B, and, if you were good, you could finish a game in a couple of hours.

But something like that won't make any money nowadays. It definitely won't be profitable enough to justify the resources that would be spent trying to make it high-quality. And before someone mentions Demon's Souls or its successor, neither one is anywhere close to what I described above.

It doesn't really sound to me like people want difficult games. It sounds to me like they want punishing games. They're two different things, in my opinion, but if you want something like that, you may as well look to the indie scene. Big developers can't afford to take risks creating big-budget games that won't sell.


I 110% agree with your post.
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Aion is just like all other WoW clones, I mean, the Mage in Aion has a Fireball spell and can make Portals. WoW ANYONE??? - Aion Boards
#100soulegion08Posted 1/21/2013 6:43:22 PM
AFreeby posted...
SHMYazoo posted...
AFreeby posted...
The problem with your viewpoint SHMY is that games are a form of entertainment, just like movies, television, and books, and I am of the belief that entertainment should always strive to be good art first, and then profitable second.

I don't think this is an outrageous demand either as many other studios believe in this philosophy as well. Platinum games, Rockstar, Valve, Atlus, ect. These are all companies that make the games they want to make, regardless of whether it will be popular or not, and they make those games good. That is why they still sell, because they are good games.

While Rockstar and Valve may sell quite well, Platinum and Atlus generally sell enough to stay in business, but they refuse to sacrifice their design philosophy just so they can make a larger profit. I will always have more respect for a studio doing a great, artistic game, over one who just shells out games to try and bring in the biggest bank roll, and this goes for all other forms of entertainment as well.


Well, that would be the ideal approach, I agree, but not everyone gets to work with what they want to. Who knows, maybe there's one guy in those share holders meeting that's against what they're doing with Megaman, Resident Evil and etc. Who knows? Good guys don't always win though and people want ultimately to make money. If they could make money by the doing something artistic they would, but if not, they'll try to find another way to do it.


If that is the case we really do need another gaming market crash. Anytime a business gets so large that it begins trading in its personal, artistic integrity for simple profits is when it is time for that business to fail.

Not only do these practices hurt the gaming industry, but they hurt the gamers as well. Kids who grow up today only being viewed as a source of profit by industry execs will never learn or grow through their gaming, because they will be given the same profitable games over and over again, and they will never have to challenge themselves, or expand beyond their comfort zones.

If you can't see how these practices are severely detrimental to people in general than there is a real problem here.


its not detrimental to people, its simply ethical in the business sense. It may be completely wrong with you but its whats right in the business world, we shouldn't forget that. I don't like it if it means lacklusters products but thats what happens.

Ex. McDonalds- arguably the worst trash in fast food industry if you ask me but people love that crap, why its quick, its tasty? and its cheap, really cheap. If you can cut corners why the hell not if it means you make more money?

might be a terrible analogy but thats what im coming up with.
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PSN:SSoul0
I play video games!