DmC is repugnant, misogynistic: Feminist Frequency

#51melainevalentPosted 1/28/2013 2:12:01 PM
StrawHatLustig posted...
Taizuku posted...
Rising_shadow posted...
However, they are not lies. Do you have any idea how tiresome it is for us girls to watch, say, Batman do all the hero thing, stand tall and proud and fearsome, while Catwoman is more often than not portrayed on her kness and all sexy like?

Do you have any idea how tiresome it is to see half naked musclebound juggernauts in every comic book?
Catwoman is actually a pretty decent female superhero who typically shares the spotlight with Batman when they show up together. She's not as strong or important in the universe but in her titles, even if the covers are terrible, she's still a strong character. Also, some of us do like strong women. Even if some outfits are ridiculous, something like a boob window is no different from the countless shirtless heros everywhere. Nobody complains about those though, the double standards just say muscular men are a male power fantasy and so are women in comics.


No one remembers Batwoman?


Batwoman, Batgirl, and Wonder Woman have some of the best series going on right now in the DC Universe. Also there is a new X-men comic where the whole team are women. Harley Quinn even heads a group in Suicide Squad.


I would exclude Batgirl from that list. It seems that every since Babs was reduced to Batgirl and lost her Oracle story with the reboot, she has become a different person. Oracle Babs was a strong woman who never needed any help to kick some ass and be independent. Batgirl Babs in this reboot has become a joke.

Wonder Woman, I agree, has a good title.

World's Finest too, with the Huntress and Power Girl.
#52StrawHatLustigPosted 1/28/2013 2:13:50 PM
melainevalent posted...
StrawHatLustig posted...
Taizuku posted...
Rising_shadow posted...
However, they are not lies. Do you have any idea how tiresome it is for us girls to watch, say, Batman do all the hero thing, stand tall and proud and fearsome, while Catwoman is more often than not portrayed on her kness and all sexy like?

Do you have any idea how tiresome it is to see half naked musclebound juggernauts in every comic book?
Catwoman is actually a pretty decent female superhero who typically shares the spotlight with Batman when they show up together. She's not as strong or important in the universe but in her titles, even if the covers are terrible, she's still a strong character. Also, some of us do like strong women. Even if some outfits are ridiculous, something like a boob window is no different from the countless shirtless heros everywhere. Nobody complains about those though, the double standards just say muscular men are a male power fantasy and so are women in comics.


No one remembers Batwoman?


Batwoman, Batgirl, and Wonder Woman have some of the best series going on right now in the DC Universe. Also there is a new X-men comic where the whole team are women. Harley Quinn even heads a group in Suicide Squad.


I would exclude Batgirl from that list. It seems that every since Babs was reduced to Batgirl and lost her Oracle story with the reboot, she has become a different person. Oracle Babs was a strong woman who never needed any help to kick some ass and be independent. Batgirl Babs in this reboot has become a joke.

Wonder Woman, I agree, has a good title.

World's Finest too, with the Huntress and Power Girl.


World's finest is indeed great. I personally haven't read Batwoman or Batgirl I was just going by word of mouth. That said, female super heroes have a much bigger presence now then they ever have before. Especially Wonder Woman. She fricking rocks.
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Currently playing: Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, DMC: Devil May Cry, The Legend of Dragoon
#53melainevalentPosted 1/28/2013 2:16:05 PM
megamatics posted...
melainevalent posted...
megamatics posted...


It's hurtful and Offensive...But it's true.
If You believe that women feel so excluded and are an untapped audience then by all means make the material to show the claim to be true. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented.



It isn't true.
Did you like DmC?

I will assume you didn't enjoy the idea of this reboot. I will assume you didn't enjoy this game and Dante didn't feel like Dante to you.

''. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented''

See how extremely unhelpful that is?

Now I will assume you enjoyed this game, but you did not enjoy the portrayl of your favorite character in a movie.

'. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented'

So, are you going to stop your life to become a director? Are you going to quit your job to learn how to make games?

I assume you won't.

So stop using that as an excuse to tell women who complain about the tropes on games to shut up. You are being hurtful, sexist and malicious in a way that you did not tell the guys who have not enjoyed this game that:

'. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented'


The difference in what you're trying to say is that there is proof of an un-tapped market. Majority of people who own DMC4 as well as previous DMC games don't seem to be rushing out to buy this game. They're possibly waiting for something to scratch that devil may cry itch. While it remains to be seen just how many female gamers aren't buying the games and other media as expressed from a Vocal Minority who don't ever prove these claims.


How is it any different than us girls waiting for something better too?

Why is it that WE need to get up and start making our own enterteinement but you boys and the DmC haters get to sit on their asses and just wait for something better?

Your logic is flawed.

Basically if we don't like how a woman was portrayed in a game, we need to quit our jobs, go back to school and make a game.

But the DmC haters get to wait for DMC 5?
And because we have rushed into buying these games, it's our fault?

Just, seriously, stop. You're making things worse here.
#54ShinkuEXPosted 1/28/2013 2:16:47 PM
I wonder if she played the game all the way to the end, considering how Dante puts Kat on a pedestal for all her accomplishments.
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#55melainevalentPosted 1/28/2013 2:17:02 PM
StrawHatLustig posted...
melainevalent posted...
StrawHatLustig posted...
Taizuku posted...
Rising_shadow posted...
However, they are not lies. Do you have any idea how tiresome it is for us girls to watch, say, Batman do all the hero thing, stand tall and proud and fearsome, while Catwoman is more often than not portrayed on her kness and all sexy like?

Do you have any idea how tiresome it is to see half naked musclebound juggernauts in every comic book?
Catwoman is actually a pretty decent female superhero who typically shares the spotlight with Batman when they show up together. She's not as strong or important in the universe but in her titles, even if the covers are terrible, she's still a strong character. Also, some of us do like strong women. Even if some outfits are ridiculous, something like a boob window is no different from the countless shirtless heros everywhere. Nobody complains about those though, the double standards just say muscular men are a male power fantasy and so are women in comics.


No one remembers Batwoman?


Batwoman, Batgirl, and Wonder Woman have some of the best series going on right now in the DC Universe. Also there is a new X-men comic where the whole team are women. Harley Quinn even heads a group in Suicide Squad.


I would exclude Batgirl from that list. It seems that every since Babs was reduced to Batgirl and lost her Oracle story with the reboot, she has become a different person. Oracle Babs was a strong woman who never needed any help to kick some ass and be independent. Batgirl Babs in this reboot has become a joke.

Wonder Woman, I agree, has a good title.

World's Finest too, with the Huntress and Power Girl.


World's finest is indeed great. I personally haven't read Batwoman or Batgirl I was just going by word of mouth. That said, female super heroes have a much bigger presence now then they ever have before. Especially Wonder Woman. She fricking rocks.


Oh, then you really should read Batwoman. She's amazing there and she just had a cross over with Wonder Woman.
#56Rising_shadowPosted 1/28/2013 2:21:01 PM
You do not know me, please don't assume things of me. I have complained about the double standards and the oversexualization of males through all my life as a feminist. I'm for both sides, I do not believe women and men need to rule over one another, I believe in equality. No women is inferior to men and no men is inferior to women. We're all the same.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm explaining a common argument I see from female comic readers who think their plight is more important. Sexism exists on both sides. Comics typically portray heroes as musclebound handsome men and most villains are pretty much regular people in terms of looks. What does that say when this is so commonly accepted as universal? Even the Hulk got a sexier makeover a while ago for a few storylines, looking more like Conan than a shovel faced freak.

The media has turned and dictated all the rules. What you see in a comic book is what society wants you to be like, to think it's hot. Both men and women get sexualized to a ridiculous amount.

Absolutely true. The problem is that sexism against men in comics is an institution to the point that it's not even questioned by most people. Anyone else remember when Wolverine used to be a short, hairy and stocky guy instead of Hugh Jackman? Neither does everyone else.

However, while Selina has an awesome personality and has proven many times in the comics that she belives in feminism as well, the way she's constantly drawn by male artists is the problem. Why do I get a booty shot of her every turn of page? Why does Batman stand tall, proud and hero like while Selina needs to be on the floor, constantly?

Same reason why Nightwing gets ass shots too and is widely remarked by many female heroes and readers alike as a hunk. He's fanservice. Fanservice is only a problem when it crosses into sexism and stupidity. Like Starfire's sudden turn last year into a promiscuous alien who'll sleep with anyone instead of a naive sexual taboo free woman with had monogamous relationships with several men.
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#57DethaPosted 1/28/2013 2:21:13 PM
It's just an extension of the argument "if you don't like it then you do better". It's a fallacy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LetsSeeYouDoBetter
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#58melainevalentPosted 1/28/2013 2:24:45 PM
Rising_shadow posted...
You do not know me, please don't assume things of me. I have complained about the double standards and the oversexualization of males through all my life as a feminist. I'm for both sides, I do not believe women and men need to rule over one another, I believe in equality. No women is inferior to men and no men is inferior to women. We're all the same.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm explaining a common argument I see from female comic readers who think their plight is more important. Sexism exists on both sides. Comics typically portray heroes as musclebound handsome men and most villains are pretty much regular people in terms of looks. What does that say when this is so commonly accepted as universal? Even the Hulk got a sexier makeover a while ago for a few storylines, looking more like Conan than a shovel faced freak.

The media has turned and dictated all the rules. What you see in a comic book is what society wants you to be like, to think it's hot. Both men and women get sexualized to a ridiculous amount.

Absolutely true. The problem is that sexism against men in comics is an institution to the point that it's not even questioned by most people. Anyone else remember when Wolverine used to be a short, hairy and stocky guy instead of Hugh Jackman? Neither does everyone else.

However, while Selina has an awesome personality and has proven many times in the comics that she belives in feminism as well, the way she's constantly drawn by male artists is the problem. Why do I get a booty shot of her every turn of page? Why does Batman stand tall, proud and hero like while Selina needs to be on the floor, constantly?

Same reason why Nightwing gets ass shots too and is widely remarked by many female heroes and readers alike as a hunk. He's fanservice. Fanservice is only a problem when it crosses into sexism and stupidity. Like Starfire's sudden turn last year into a promiscuous alien who'll sleep with anyone instead of a naive sexual taboo free woman with had monogamous relationships with several men.



^
The changes they made with Starfire hurt me so much. Kori was awesome and Lobdell went and messed it up.

Nightwing, yes! He's a good example. I think there is actually a blog about his ass somewhere.

And it's horible because even among the artists, this booty shots with Nightwing have become some sort of joke. The same way the booty shots of Catwoman have become the 'norm'.

I think fanservice makes things worse most of the time.
#59TaizukuPosted 1/28/2013 2:25:20 PM
Detha posted...
It's just an extension of the argument "if you don't like it then you do better". It's a fallacy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LetsSeeYouDoBetter


Except it's not "if you don't like it then you do it better" it's more like "if you don't like it do something...anything...please?"
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#60megamaticsPosted 1/28/2013 2:26:05 PM
melainevalent posted...
megamatics posted...
melainevalent posted...
megamatics posted...


It's hurtful and Offensive...But it's true.
If You believe that women feel so excluded and are an untapped audience then by all means make the material to show the claim to be true. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented.



It isn't true.
Did you like DmC?

I will assume you didn't enjoy the idea of this reboot. I will assume you didn't enjoy this game and Dante didn't feel like Dante to you.

''. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented''

See how extremely unhelpful that is?

Now I will assume you enjoyed this game, but you did not enjoy the portrayl of your favorite character in a movie.

'. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented'

So, are you going to stop your life to become a director? Are you going to quit your job to learn how to make games?

I assume you won't.

So stop using that as an excuse to tell women who complain about the tropes on games to shut up. You are being hurtful, sexist and malicious in a way that you did not tell the guys who have not enjoyed this game that:

'. You don't get to decide what another individual writes or does, So either stop belly aching or get to work on your "Un Tapped Market" you so think is being under represented'


The difference in what you're trying to say is that there is proof of an un-tapped market. Majority of people who own DMC4 as well as previous DMC games don't seem to be rushing out to buy this game. They're possibly waiting for something to scratch that devil may cry itch. While it remains to be seen just how many female gamers aren't buying the games and other media as expressed from a Vocal Minority who don't ever prove these claims.


How is it any different than us girls waiting for something better too?

Why is it that WE need to get up and start making our own enterteinement but you boys and the DmC haters get to sit on their asses and just wait for something better?

Your logic is flawed.

Basically if we don't like how a woman was portrayed in a game, we need to quit our jobs, go back to school and make a game.

But the DmC haters get to wait for DMC 5?
And because we have rushed into buying these games, it's our fault?

Just, seriously, stop. You're making things worse here.


It's because you don't have proof that women are buying or not buying these games because of sexist tropes. It's just a minority of them all complaining which relatively shows us nothing.

My Logic is not flawed. If you don't like something either don't buy it or don't pay attention to it. When you buy those movies and games that you so hate the depictions in then you are telling them you want more of it. All you have to show for it are words that mean absolutely nothing to how they make their Movies, Games, Books, and Tv Shows.

If only Eight Thousand People don't buy something because of whats in it and the game or other media does ten times that a week then you have to ask yourself. "Is this really for me ?" The answers no.
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