is vergil considered a villain?

#111Xtreme65Posted 2/14/2013 11:04:14 AM
Sorry MGR fans but that screen tells me that once you get good at the game (aka not dieing) and skip cutscenes, you're still looking at only 5 hours of gameplay for a walkthrough. The only valid argument you guys have is it doesn' account for dieing but even then you still have to replay a section so it isnt anything new thus your only looking at 5 hours of content which isnt much. Not trying to defend DmC as its even shorter in gameplay content but you guys are trying to hard to defend MGRs length when proof of its length is right in front of you. As for how much time you spent total on the game is different though as I spent 70 hours on DmC and still climbing, when it only took me 30 hours to platinum.
---
When coincidence is so convenient, I prefer to call it fate.
#112FulvipPosted 2/14/2013 11:06:55 AM
Xtreme65 posted...
Sorry MGR fans but that screen tells me that once you get good at the game (aka not dieing) and skip cutscenes, you're still looking at only 5 hours of gameplay for a walkthrough. The only valid argument you guys have is it doesn' account for dieing but even then you still have to replay a section so it isnt anything new thus your only looking at 5 hours of content which isnt much. Not trying to defend DmC as its even shorter in gameplay content but you guys are trying to hard to defend MGRs length when proof of its length is right in front of you. As for how much time you spent total on the game is different though as I spent 70 hours on DmC and still climbing, when it only took me 30 hours to platinum.


You can get through DmC in less than 6 hours with worse gameplay and boring bosses, so I'd say MGR is still winning.
---
Official Auron of the boards. The only one bad*** enough to like Light.
CP: FFXIII, DmC, Folklore
#113FireMage7777Posted 2/14/2013 11:08:12 AM
Xtreme65 posted...
Sorry MGR fans but that screen tells me that once you get good at the game (aka not dieing) and skip cutscenes, you're still looking at only 5 hours of gameplay for a walkthrough. The only valid argument you guys have is it doesn' account for dieing but even then you still have to replay a section so it isnt anything new thus your only looking at 5 hours of content which isnt much. Not trying to defend DmC as its even shorter in gameplay content but you guys are trying to hard to defend MGRs length when proof of its length is right in front of you. As for how much time you spent total on the game is different though as I spent 70 hours on DmC and still climbing, when it only took me 30 hours to platinum.


It took you 30 hours to plat...you must not be efficient
---
"FlameBaiting is like Jc on DMC, it's smooth and takes skill. A DmC pro like you would never be able to pull it off" 5hadows
#114mad_hax_manPosted 2/14/2013 12:56:53 PM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...

Except he didn't kill thousands of people, demons did. He didn't intend to cause suffering on innocents, that was just collateral from wanting to open the hell gate at the top of the Temen-ni-gru to go get his father's sword. That's how he's not a villain.


He took active steps that he knew would lead to the deaths of thousands of people for purely selfish reasons. It doesn't matter if he was a sadist who enjoyed thousands of people suffer or he just didn't care. He performed malicious actions for selfish reasons. None of that makes him anything other than evil. He is a villain. He's more of a villain than Sanctus, whose long term plans included order and peace. He's only a little better than Arhkam. The only real difference is that Arhkam succeeded in killing his wife while Vergil only attempted to kill his brother.




Also,
prince_nagash posted...
Factors like intentions, or collateral damage can contribute to whether or not we view someone as a villain.
I would say motivation and purpose would be the ultimate way to determine someone's alignment.
a) It's not easy, because I could easily say I have good intentions, but my actions to keep spending money selfishly or recklessly or supporting companies that damage the world or take advantage of people could place me in the villain category. b)Or how I don't spend my time and money on ways to help and save people, for the greater good. That could push me into the villain category could it not?


a) Two things. First, Vergil doesn't have good intentions. His actions are selfish and the humanity we see in him is the tiny bit at the end where he tells Dante to leave the demon world. But even then, Vergil was willing to kill Dante for the amulet. Secondly, this isn't Vergil being reckless and not researching and not understanding the long term results of his actions. This is Vergil performing an action that he knows will lead to the deaths of thousands of people, but not caring.

b) The difference is your not taking active steps to help some one is not the same thing as some one actively taking steps that will ensure the death of thousands.

Finally, your not in a story. Vergil is in a story that happens to have a clear sense of black and white morality. DMC3 Vergil is quiet clearly a villain.
---
"Hey bridesmaid, love the beard! Give's me something to hang onto!!"- Lord Flasheart
#115FireMage7777Posted 2/14/2013 1:11:06 PM
mad_hax_man posted...
AlexxShadenk777 posted...

Except he didn't kill thousands of people, demons did. He didn't intend to cause suffering on innocents, that was just collateral from wanting to open the hell gate at the top of the Temen-ni-gru to go get his father's sword. That's how he's not a villain.


He took active steps that he knew would lead to the deaths of thousands of people for purely selfish reasons. It doesn't matter if he was a sadist who enjoyed thousands of people suffer or he just didn't care. He performed malicious actions for selfish reasons. None of that makes him anything other than evil. He is a villain. He's more of a villain than Sanctus, whose long term plans included order and peace. He's only a little better than Arhkam. The only real difference is that Arhkam succeeded in killing his wife while Vergil only attempted to kill his brother.




Also,
prince_nagash posted...
Factors like intentions, or collateral damage can contribute to whether or not we view someone as a villain.
I would say motivation and purpose would be the ultimate way to determine someone's alignment.
a) It's not easy, because I could easily say I have good intentions, but my actions to keep spending money selfishly or recklessly or supporting companies that damage the world or take advantage of people could place me in the villain category. b)Or how I don't spend my time and money on ways to help and save people, for the greater good. That could push me into the villain category could it not?


a) Two things. First, Vergil doesn't have good intentions. His actions are selfish and the humanity we see in him is the tiny bit at the end where he tells Dante to leave the demon world. But even then, Vergil was willing to kill Dante for the amulet. Secondly, this isn't Vergil being reckless and not researching and not understanding the long term results of his actions. This is Vergil performing an action that he knows will lead to the deaths of thousands of people, but not caring.

b) The difference is your not taking active steps to help some one is not the same thing as some one actively taking steps that will ensure the death of thousands.

Finally, your not in a story. Vergil is in a story that happens to have a clear sense of black and white morality. DMC3 Vergil is quiet clearly a villain.


Vergil wanted his fathers power for a myriad of reasons, including attempting to be like him. Saying that Sanctus is less of a villain than Vergil is plain ignorance. Also Vergil never flat out attempted to kill his brother...
---
"FlameBaiting is like Jc on DMC, it's smooth and takes skill. A DmC pro like you would never be able to pull it off" 5hadows
#116mad_hax_manPosted 2/14/2013 3:04:17 PM
FireMage7777 posted...


Vergil wanted his fathers power for a myriad of reasons, including attempting to be like him. Saying that Sanctus is less of a villain than Vergil is plain ignorance. Also Vergil never flat out attempted to kill his brother...


Sanctus wanted to be like Sparda as well. Your point?

And Vergil was trying to kill Dante off at the end of mission 7. The only reason he didn't is because Dante's DT awoke first and Arkham reminded Vergil that they had other priorities.
---
"Hey bridesmaid, love the beard! Give's me something to hang onto!!"- Lord Flasheart
#117AlexxShadenk777Posted 2/14/2013 3:39:53 PM
Vergil is in a story that happens to have a clear sense of black and white morality.

This right here is the only sentence uttered by you needed to prove that you're wrong about every single thing you've said so far, as you clearly don't even understand what you're talking about. If there's anything the DMC series has ever explicitly told is that morality is most definitely NOT black and white.

DMC1:
2000 years ago there was a war, between the human world and the other, the Underworld.
But someone from the Underworld woke up to justice and stood up against this Legion, alone.


DMC2:
In a time long since past... in an age of darkness, when the Earth was overrun with demons and humans were powerless under their rule... humanity's hope live in a demon named Sparda. With a spirit unlike any other, and wielding the sword which bore his own name, Sparda eradicated the demons. And now the legend of Sparda has been inherited down to his son, the demon slayer Dante!

DMC3:
Long ago in ancient times, a demon rebelled against his own kind for the sake of the human race. With his sword,he shut the portal to the demonic realm and sealed the evil entities off from our human world. But since he was a demon himself, his power was also trapped on the other side

In short:
Demon realizes human oppression is wrong. Demon promptly rebels against his own kind. Humans then admit that their only hope of surviving is in a demon. Demon then selflessly gives up his own powers to seal off the rest of his kind in the other realm. Finally, the demon stays in the human world, eventually having sons with a human, ensuring that humanity will be able to rely on someone else after he's passed away.

There's no true black and white here. And Vergil is the best example of that, doing neither good or bad, all that matters is power and screw morality.

As a side note, it's not entirely clear whether or not the either twin truly wanted to kill the other. If anything, it's Dante the one closer to wanting to kill Vergil, he flat out tells him: "I have to stop you... even if that means killing you." But in the end, he tried to prevent Vergil from falling back into Hell. Vergil decided to stay. And Dante cried.

Spout about morals all you want, but the fact remains: Vergil was never a villain. His actions and intentions do not define a villain.
---
PSN: AlexxShadenk777
"DMC1 is the best, DMC4 is the worst. Not changing this signature till DMC1 gets its true sequel." January 17th 2013
#118FireMage7777Posted 2/14/2013 3:52:10 PM
mad_hax_man posted...
FireMage7777 posted...


Vergil wanted his fathers power for a myriad of reasons, including attempting to be like him. Saying that Sanctus is less of a villain than Vergil is plain ignorance. Also Vergil never flat out attempted to kill his brother...


Sanctus wanted to be like Sparda as well. Your point?

And Vergil was trying to kill Dante off at the end of mission 7. The only reason he didn't is because Dante's DT awoke first and Arkham reminded Vergil that they had other priorities.


No...Sanctus wanted to conquer the world with The Savior...did you PLAY the game?

And no, Vergil knew what Dante could take, and only reason he was about to draw his sword was in case the fight was resume, but Dante was obviously too wounded to do so...
---
"FlameBaiting is like Jc on DMC, it's smooth and takes skill. A DmC pro like you would never be able to pull it off" 5hadows
#119NairodmaticPosted 2/14/2013 4:20:35 PM
mad_hax_man posted...
AlexxShadenk777 posted...

Except he didn't kill thousands of people, demons did. He didn't intend to cause suffering on innocents, that was just collateral from wanting to open the hell gate at the top of the Temen-ni-gru to go get his father's sword. That's how he's not a villain.


He took active steps that he knew would lead to the deaths of thousands of people for purely selfish reasons. It doesn't matter if he was a sadist who enjoyed thousands of people suffer or he just didn't care. He performed malicious actions for selfish reasons. None of that makes him anything other than evil. He is a villain. He's more of a villain than Sanctus, whose long term plans included order and peace. He's only a little better than Arhkam. The only real difference is that Arhkam succeeded in killing his wife while Vergil only attempted to kill his brother.



...thought I was the only one that knew he was a bad guy. *phew*
---
Maybe video games should cost less than 20 million and take less than 3 years to make. Because $60 a pop is some b*******!
#120AlexxShadenk777Posted 2/14/2013 4:26:03 PM
A bad guy =/= the villain.
---
PSN: AlexxShadenk777
"DMC1 is the best, DMC4 is the worst. Not changing this signature till DMC1 gets its true sequel." January 17th 2013