Lilith (Spoilers)

#71Wolf_Torrent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 10:39:00 AM(edited)
AStrangeman
God as a noun just means higher power. The western God Jehovah/Yahweh/God the father is totally different to the one worshipped by other cultures.
You're an idiot if you think the whole world worships the one God and a very arrogant one at that.
The actual saying comes from: "Oh MY God".


Come at me, BRAH!

But no, really, this game is leaning heavily toward the Judeo-Christian version of Heaven and Hell, demons and angels. Back in the day and even now the word "God" has historically held great weight. For humans, it's huge with meaning. This is your creator, your sovereign!

Now imagine what that might mean to an angel or a demon who are in the thick of this cosmically scaled war, one that's been raging practically all their lives.

To say "For god's sake" is to implore to the other person to stop, or continue whatever it is they're doing "for the sake of god." And I think it's a strange thing for a demon to say that so lightly. Unless shatter is right that all demons regard Mundus as a god...but then that poses it's own uncomfortable issues.

Re-read my first post; never said anything about real world religion and which sects pwn the mostest.
#72Shiro-RedWind-Posted 2/15/2013 10:30:36 AM
shatterstar posted...
Shiro-RedWind- posted...
So, idk if Uber is just not reading and comprehending well, or if it is just a denial of facts, but I am going to add my case and tidbits to star's argument:

Even if you do not pay attention to that boss fight, it becomes clear through the story what Lilith's intentions are, and what Lilith's main goals and wants are when it comes to Mundus. It has been brought up here, so I see no point in using spoilers, game has been out for almost a month now:

At one point in the cutscenes, Mundus (while doing the dirty with Lilith) says that he feels his Succubus has died. Lilith shows distaste in him even bringing her up, corresponding her response to him as " Why do we need to talk about her? " It is also evident from the start of the game, that Lilith pretty much wants nothing more than to be the center of Mundus' world. A little bit later on, once you fight the boss battle of MundBaby+Lilith you do start to find out and hear things in the fight (though I do not know how true the taunt = citation from performance thing really is) I have heard her say several different things, as well as Dante in that boss fight. Sometimes the same, sometimes different, sometimes completely out of the blue.

The death of Lilith and her baby is also another crucial showmanship of Lilith's goals and intentions. It also shows that Mundus as well did not give two flips about Lilith other than the point of her being an incubator to his child. I am pretty sure, if Mundus could have had any other gullible wench do it, he would have and then some. But why shop too far off, when you have one of the most loose women in biblical history at your side? (And I say this with a lack of sleep and barely much memory on mention of Lilith in biblical nature, so if you want to bible thump and correct me, feel free. But I give no @*(* about it quite honestly.)

Any form of denial about Lilith's goals is only on the basis that you never paid attention to the plot anyway. Or you never owned the game at all and only watched the boss fights/some cut scenes on youtube. That's just my two cent though.


I know that it becomes clear.

Hell. The story is as clear as day but some people just seem tonot grasp it will but only to the point of Mundus bad guy, Dante must stop bad guy. Because if that were the case, UbberDevil would've know that the Succubus was one of Mundus whores but instead he decided to call me a liar just because he didn't hear Lilith say it in the Boss fight dialogue.

But I was talking to this other person, before UbberDevil rudely interrupted, that the dialogue randomly changes and Lilith will reveal more about herself and here overall goal.

PS: I'm glad to at least have an intelligent conversation for once with someone that comprehends things very well and not just throwing out childish insults at the game and Capcom/NT and they're probably over the ages of 25 and 30..lol.

But you're wrong about me not owning the game or haven't played it. Because I've post my walkthrough on my You Tube channel.

Here you go...

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaC0f7xlLFpqZSnwxoaL0cUBgnpwhefI3


My post was in favor of your points, not against them, champ.
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"Gamefaqs doesn't allow Common Sense." - Tifanity
"Shiro -Red Wind- slaying posters with the mighty winds of Asgard as usual." - Sage_Han
#73UbberDevilPosted 2/15/2013 10:35:45 AM(edited)
I'm glad to at least have an intelligent conversation for once with someone that comprehends things very well

My post was in favor of your points, not against them, champ

And this is how comedy is made.

Also, how do you interrupt people on a message board?
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Q- if Satan is the prince of darkness, who's the king?
A- UbberDevil, and Sparda is my Queen. GT: MongooseDave2
#74Shiro-RedWind-Posted 2/15/2013 10:35:15 AM
UbberDevil posted...
Shiro-RedWind- posted...
So, idk if Uber is just not reading and comprehending well, or if it is just a denial of facts, but I am going to add my case and tidbits to star's argument:

Even if you do not pay attention to that boss fight, it becomes clear through the story what Lilith's intentions are, and what Lilith's main goals and wants are when it comes to Mundus. It has been brought up here, so I see no point in using spoilers, game has been out for almost a month now:

At one point in the cutscenes, Mundus (while doing the dirty with Lilith) says that he feels his Succubus has died. Lilith shows distaste in him even bringing her up, corresponding her response to him as " Why do we need to talk about her? " It is also evident from the start of the game, that Lilith pretty much wants nothing more than to be the center of Mundus' world. A little bit later on, once you fight the boss battle of MundBaby+Lilith you do start to find out and hear things in the fight (though I do not know how true the taunt = citation from performance thing really is) I have heard her say several different things, as well as Dante in that boss fight. Sometimes the same, sometimes different, sometimes completely out of the blue.

The death of Lilith and her baby is also another crucial showmanship of Lilith's goals and intentions. It also shows that Mundus as well did not give two flips about Lilith other than the point of her being an incubator to his child. I am pretty sure, if Mundus could have had any other gullible wench do it, he would have and then some. But why shop too far off, when you have one of the most loose women in biblical history at your side? (And I say this with a lack of sleep and barely much memory on mention of Lilith in biblical nature, so if you want to bible thump and correct me, feel free. But I give no @*(* about it quite honestly.)

Any form of denial about Lilith's goals is only on the basis that you never paid attention to the plot anyway. Or you never owned the game at all and only watched the boss fights/some cut scenes on youtube. That's just my two cent though.


I know very well that Lilith was only important to Mundus in that she was carrying his child. And I know that Lilith relied on the child to always be the center of attention from Mundus. However, Shatter was making it sound like there was a completely different purpose "true purpose" for Lilith outside of all that. Or that there was more to Mundus's and Lilith's relationship than that. He said that you find out what all of that is by letting the Lilith fight drag out. Well I call bulls***.

This story isn't hard at all to follow but shatter makes it sound like it holds all this deep meaning that you might not catch onto.


Understandable. On that level like I said, I as well notice you get different dialogue during the boss fights. That was one of the first things I noticed on my second play through. It does shine some light on some things if you want a little more information; but I do not know how true the taunting is done by perfomance * score * damage taken stuff. That makes no sense to me what-so-ever. Even if that was the case, that means you would either literally hear all the "taunting" on a good back and forth run (SSS rank) or you would get minimal to no information (Anything lower than a C maybe.) It just seemed like there was some lack of understanding going on there, so I added my thoughts on it. Which to clarify in tl;dr version:

You do hear other dialogue during boss fights, but I do not believe it's linked to your performance against the boss.
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"Gamefaqs doesn't allow Common Sense." - Tifanity
"Shiro -Red Wind- slaying posters with the mighty winds of Asgard as usual." - Sage_Han
#75UbberDevilPosted 2/15/2013 10:47:30 AM
Understandable. On that level like I said, I as well notice you get different dialogue during the boss fights. That was one of the first things I noticed on my second play through. It does shine some light on some things if you want a little more information; but I do not know how true the taunting is done by perfomance * score * damage taken stuff. That makes no sense to me what-so-ever. Even if that was the case, that means you would either literally hear all the "taunting" on a good back and forth run (SSS rank) or you would get minimal to no information (Anything lower than a C maybe.) It just seemed like there was some lack of understanding going on there, so I added my thoughts on it. Which to clarify in tl;dr version:

You do hear other dialogue during boss fights, but I do not believe it's linked to your performance against the boss.


I have already agreed and clearly saw that bosses will say different dialogue sometimes during the fights. However, what I have trouble believing is that they would say such important character-developing dialogue. In my experience the bosses never said anything important, just taunts. Shatter was trying to argue that Lilith saying "My baby is immortal like his father" was an important point but it's not because what Lilith said isn't true. The baby was killed by one shot from a gun, so again, it was just meaningless banter.

And while you could argue that "My succubus is dead" scene indicates that Mundus would f*** her and Lilith didn't want to talk about her but I saw that simply as Lilith wants to be the center of Mundus's world and doesn't want him talking about any female demons at all. Women sometimes get jealous when you talk about other women. Doesn't necessarily mean he was f***ing the succubus.

I paid attention to the story, just not shatterstar's story.
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Q- if Satan is the prince of darkness, who's the king?
A- UbberDevil, and Sparda is my Queen. GT: MongooseDave2
#76StrelokPosted 2/15/2013 11:51:05 AM
So... Lollerstar, collectables are acceptable here but not in MGR eh?
Did you somehow forget the leaks before this game appeared? you sure were quick to call shenanigans, yet all of them were true.
People completed this game before it hit the shelves as well, on DMD at that.

You sure love your hypocrisy.
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#77largerockPosted 2/15/2013 3:37:24 PM(edited)
caffiend7 posted...
Dat shakespearean writing

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#78Wolf_Torrent(Topic Creator)Posted 2/16/2013 2:02:52 AM
Everbody gets one.

*Bump*
#79vgman94Posted 2/16/2013 5:40:51 AM
caffiend7 posted...
Dat A+ writing


Please don't tell me you're going to make fun of the writing for that and expect to be taken seriously...
#80NightmareGammaPosted 2/16/2013 6:00:41 AM
Wolf_Torrent posted...
At one point during the fetus boss battle Lilith says a curious thing.

"For god's sake, hit him back!"

Basically she's telling Munbaby to fight harder. Now the expression "for god's sake" is used to convey frustration, desperation, anger, surprise, all that jazz, and Lilith has good reason to feel this way because by this point in the battle she's losing.

But she's a demon. Why would she be invoking God's name? Can you imagine an angel saying, "For Satan's sake"? It's odd, isn't it?

It's an oversight in the script that's for sure, be it intentional or not, but since it's there let's come up with reasons why she's able to say that and not be struck dead by the Almighty Himself, or at the very least have an angel swoop down and cuff her upside the head.

I'll throw in my .02 and say that God and his angelic army have little to no influence in the human world, and that demonkind is not as allergic to holy names/symbols as they probably should be.


*tip TC's shoulder* Pssht... I have news for you! Mundus claimed himself to be a god! So Lilith is referring to him =D
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"KILL ME! LEAVE ME TO DIE IN A POOL OF MY OWN BLOOD!"" - Mitsunari Ishida, Sengoku Basara 3