Do you at least like the idea of a universal dodge button?

#41FireMage7777Posted 2/15/2013 11:08:55 AM
Pesmerga255 posted...
DarkSymbiote posted...
^ It's a faster roll so it works. I should have specified. But I forgot.


The roll animation takes roughly the same amount of time. You just like DmC's roll because it works better for casual players, thanks to the increased invincibility time.


That and the fact enemies move like snails
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#42wolf rider(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 11:19:56 AM(edited)
I want to clarify that the only thing I want changed is the command, not the side roll's properties. Same i-frames, same roll animation, same recovery, etc as DMC1/3/4. The only thing I want changed is the command so that it's no longer based on Dante's direction.

You would still need to time your rolls to evade enemy attacks. All this would do is make the game more accessible and intuitive, not dumb it down. If anything, the dodge command was too complex to begin with.

It's like saying on the fly style change was 'dumbing down' in DMC4 because it could be done with a touch of a button.

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"When was the last time someone said 'Man, I wish this game had MORE QTEs'? Never mother******. That's when!" ~ Samuel L. Jackson on QTEs
True story.
#43NeoTStylePosted 2/15/2013 11:34:56 AM
From: Snipa_Wulf12 | #026
No dedicated dodge button.

Side rolls combined with trickster/table hopper is enough.

Keep your casual ideas away from a series which has never, until recently and poorly, tried to appeal to casuals.
#44NightTerrorX99Posted 2/15/2013 11:37:07 AM
wolf rider posted...
I want to clarify that the only thing I want changed is the command, not the side roll's properties. Same i-frames, same roll animation, same recovery, etc as DMC1/3/4. The only thing I want changed is the command so that it's no longer based on Dante's direction.

You would still need to time your rolls to evade enemy attacks. All this would do is make the game more accessible and intuitive, not dumb it down. If anything, the dodge command was too complex to begin with.

It's like saying on the fly style change was 'dumbing down' in DMC4 because it could be done with a touch of a button.


That was actually said about the game. Some people still claim that.
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#45wolf rider(Topic Creator)Posted 2/17/2013 12:47:29 AM
Well, so far it seems like the majority of people do prefer a dodge button.
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"When was the last time someone said 'Man, I wish this game had MORE QTEs'? Never mother******. That's when!" ~ Samuel L. Jackson on QTEs
True story.
#46produnerPosted 2/17/2013 12:55:16 AM
Lock on + direction to doge feels natural and better at spacing while focusing on the opponent, also the jump button serves as a dodge button because it functions in the same manner ( direction + dodge while locked on), aside from that using jump to roll is better because jumping backwards and naturally , both have I-frames and you can use them alongside rolling. Dodge button is inaccurate , gimmicky and lacks technical aspects
#47_Uwye_Posted 2/17/2013 1:07:23 AM
Psychochild27 posted...
Pesmerga255 posted...
DarkSymbiote posted...
^ It's a faster roll so it works. I should have specified. But I forgot.


The roll animation takes roughly the same amount of time. You just like DmC's roll because it works better for casual players, thanks to the increased invincibility time.



Also, DMC4's roll is actually faster. It takes about .6 seconds on normal speed (I checked it twice because I thought it was on turbo) while DmC's about .8 seconds and they both go approximately the same distance so... he likes it because it's slower and gives him more I-Frames?

/Fraps is great.


They do? O_o
#48wolf rider(Topic Creator)Posted 2/17/2013 1:31:49 AM
produner posted...
Lock on + direction to doge feels natural and better at spacing while focusing on the opponent, also the jump button serves as a dodge button because it functions in the same manner ( direction + dodge while locked on), aside from that using jump to roll is better because jumping backwards and naturally , both have I-frames and you can use them alongside rolling. Dodge button is inaccurate , gimmicky and lacks technical aspects


I've addressed this already. It's way too easy to screw up if Dante isn't perfectly facing 0, 90, 180 or 270 degrees and a jump comes out when you want to dodge an attack that can't be avoided by a jump (e.g., a boss' vertical slash).

To say the rest of your reasons are subjective is pushing it. Pressing three buttons as well as keeping track of which direction Dante is facing is hardly more natural than a single dodge button + direction input. If anything, it's the overly complex dodging that serves as a gimmick to make the game difficult.

If you want to add challenge to a game, give the enemy a greater variety of attacks that require different evasive moves and timing to avoid, or combine different types of enemies in a battle, not make it cumbersome to actually do the evading.

I find it funny how people say it's fine in Bayo but not in DMC, when Bayo is basically DMC without a lot of the cheapness caused by the limitations of the old games.
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"When was the last time someone said 'Man, I wish this game had MORE QTEs'? Never mother******. That's when!" ~ Samuel L. Jackson on QTEs
True story.
#49A_Nonny_MoosePosted 2/17/2013 6:07:00 AM
From: wolf rider | Posted: 2/17/2013 8:31:49 AM | #048
I've addressed this already. It's way too easy to screw up if Dante isn't perfectly facing 0, 90, 180 or 270 degrees and a jump comes out when you want to dodge an attack that can't be avoided by a jump (e.g., a boss' vertical slash).

You will avoid it anyway if you jump at the right time. The point of dodging in DMC isn't to physically avoid the attack, but time it properly that when the attack hits you it does no damage. Side roll and jump both do this.

One thing I dislike about the dodge in DmC, although it's more to do with the lack of lock on, is that Dante never looks focused. When he dodges he turns away from the enemy. He's always looking in the same direction that he's moving, which is just messy.

DMC2 did dodging better.
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#50produnerPosted 2/17/2013 6:19:32 AM(edited)
wolf rider posted...
produner posted...
Lock on + direction to doge feels natural and better at spacing while focusing on the opponent, also the jump button serves as a dodge button because it functions in the same manner ( direction + dodge while locked on), aside from that using jump to roll is better because jumping backwards and naturally , both have I-frames and you can use them alongside rolling. Dodge button is inaccurate , gimmicky and lacks technical aspects


I've addressed this already. It's way too easy to screw up if Dante isn't perfectly facing 0, 90, 180 or 270 degrees and a jump comes out when you want to dodge an attack that can't be avoided by a jump (e.g., a boss' vertical slash).

To say the rest of your reasons are subjective is pushing it. Pressing three buttons as well as keeping track of which direction Dante is facing is hardly more natural than a single dodge button + direction input. If anything, it's the overly complex dodging that serves as a gimmick to make the game difficult.

If you want to add challenge to a game, give the enemy a greater variety of attacks that require different evasive moves and timing to avoid, or combine different types of enemies in a battle, not make it cumbersome to actually do the evading.

I find it funny how people say it's fine in Bayo but not in DMC, when Bayo is basically DMC without a lot of the cheapness caused by the limitations of the old games.


You seem to have an extreme case of butthurt-ness. And jumping instead of rolling is your mistake, you have to control the camera (dat camera) properly and i-frames can avoid the "vertical" attacks as long as you don't mistime it into the active frames of the attack. Prees lock on> direction to roll or jump is better, and serves more than just dodging mechanics.

Also, judging from your logic, complex attacks and execution/ input requirements are fake difficulty, and instead should be replaced with one button attacks, because that is just gimmick instead of precision, risk in screwing up and a learning curve to master things with precision and feel satisfied by playing something complex rather than braindead gameplay and sense of achievement afterwards. How about making everything into one button? video games are not supposed to be a challenge.