Do you at least like the idea of a universal dodge button?

#61KyryloPosted 2/18/2013 4:27:49 AM
Dodging in DmC = block in GoW. Spam and you never get a trouble.
#62A_Nonny_MoosePosted 2/18/2013 5:02:54 AM
From: wolf rider | Posted: 2/18/2013 8:13:54 AM | #059
While it is technically correct to say you are using i-frames to jump/roll through enemy attacks, that is only how the hardcore, technical DMC fans think of it while playing.

What you and many describe are the mechanics of how evasion is implemented, not how evasion was intended to be seen. I very much doubt the developers intended for gamers to ignore what they see on screen with their eyes, and learn and rely on a move's i-frames to deliberately pass through attacks as a means of evasion. It is much more intuitive for the gamer to see Dante avoid an attack than to pass through it.

Rubbish. I haven't beaten any DMC game on a higher setting than normal (and for DMC1 that was still pretty hard for me) and it's obvious that's how the dodge is supposed to be used. It's clearly intentional.

I-frames were likely implemented to offset the minor delays between a gamer recognising an incoming attack, entering a dodge command, and Dante actually starting the jump/roll animation. It was to provide some leeway to the player in such a fast paced action game. It would suck if Dante was repeatedly swatted out of the air after his feet left one centimeter off the ground.

The i-frames are there so that if you dodge at the right time you don't get hit. In a "fast paced action game", worrying about physically avoiding each individual attack would be massively annoying, especially against bosses. It's better to have a dodge mechanic that works the same every time and allows you to stay close and focused on the enemy.

Conversely, if people think jumping and dodging are fundamentally the same, why are they opposed to having the side roll command be a single button + direction and not dependent on what direction Dante is facing, when jumping is implemented the same way?

Because that button could be used for something else. Like Styles.

From: Draconic_Seed | Posted: 2/18/2013 1:51:17 AM | #058
Some of the things I couldn't stand in old DMC games were the unintuitive and convoluted controls and bad camera angles done in purpose just for the sake of difficulty. A very, very fake difficulty.

Except it's not difficult at all. It's just jumping in a direction.
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#63Xaldin0011Posted 2/18/2013 7:16:28 AM
I can like it, but there is absolutely no reason to have 2 buttons that dodge, doing the same kind of dodge.
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#64KeJo6Posted 2/18/2013 7:32:14 AM
Xaldin0011 posted...
I can like it, but there is absolutely no reason to have 2 buttons that dodge, doing the same kind of dodge.


only way i can rationalise it, is that they assumed people would keep the weapon switches on the L1 and R1 buttons, and having a dodge on L2 and R2 would make it simpler depending on which mode your in.

That being said, I immediately changed my button layouts for dodge and switch, so I only use one of the dodges anyway (L1/L2 for mode switch, R1 for target switch, and R2 for dodge).
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#65A_Nonny_MoosePosted 2/18/2013 7:35:59 AM
From: KeJo6 | Posted: 2/18/2013 2:32:14 PM | #064
only way i can rationalise it, is that they assumed people would keep the weapon switches on the L1 and R1 buttons, and having a dodge on L2 and R2 would make it simpler depending on which mode your in.

Which means at some point they realised their own default control scheme was awkward, but rather than change it they just added an extra dodge button.
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#66KeJo6Posted 2/18/2013 7:40:41 AM
A_Nonny_Moose posted...
From: KeJo6 | Posted: 2/18/2013 2:32:14 PM | #064
only way i can rationalise it, is that they assumed people would keep the weapon switches on the L1 and R1 buttons, and having a dodge on L2 and R2 would make it simpler depending on which mode your in.

Which means at some point they realised their own default control scheme was awkward, but rather than change it they just added an extra dodge button.


Not what I meant.

I meant that since te default uses the two from L and Rs, it would be easier to dodge with the corresponding back triggers since you're already holding one of the fronts.

Like I said though, it's kind of pointless, since there are a number of better custom control layouts.

Second dodge button shoulda been taunt (hell when fighting some of the bosses, demon dodge might as well be a taunt)
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#67A_Nonny_MoosePosted 2/18/2013 7:50:41 AM(edited)
From: KeJo6 | Posted: 2/18/2013 2:40:41 PM | #066
I meant that since te default uses the two from L and Rs, it would be easier to dodge with the corresponding back triggers since you're already holding one of the fronts.

You'd find it easier to use both L/R at once rather than one of each?

Either way, the control scheme is the reason for both dodge buttons. They knew that if dodge was only L1, for example, then dodging while also holding L2 would be awkward for some. Likewise if it was R1, using it with R2 would be awkward. So they made it both, rather than doing to sensible thing of putting both Angel/Demon on one side of the controller and dodge on the other, just to preserve their Heavenly Sword control scheme for no reason.

I'm pretty sure they said it themselves, they wanted the player to "always have access to the dodge button". I for one dislike using both L/R buttons at once. Even in the older games I put weapon switch and gun switch to L1 and L2.
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#68KeJo6Posted 2/18/2013 7:55:20 AM
A_Nonny_Moose posted...
From: KeJo6 | Posted: 2/18/2013 2:40:41 PM | #066
I meant that since te default uses the two from L and Rs, it would be easier to dodge with the corresponding back triggers since you're already holding one of the fronts.

You'd find it easier to use both L/R at once rather than one of each?

Either way, the control scheme is the reason for both dodge buttons. They knew that if dodge was only L1, for example, then dodging while also holding L2 would be awkward for some. Likewise if it was R1, using it with R2 would be awkward. So they made it both, rather than doing to sensible thing of putting both Angel/Demon on one side of the controller and dodge on the other, just to preserve their Heavenly Sword control scheme for no reason.

I'm pretty sure they said it themselves, they wanted the player to "always have access to the dodge button". I for one dislike using both L/R buttons at once. Even in the older games I put weapon switch and gun switch to L1 and L2.


Which is pretty much what I said. Having one side dedicated to angel with a dodge available and one to demon with a dodge available, since you're already holding one of the buttons you can just tap the corresponding dodge.

I'm not saying it makes perfect sense, an I sure as hell don't useit, but I can see the rational, despite the flaws.
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#69DuckKiller84Posted 2/18/2013 7:59:03 AM
There has always been a "universal dodge button". It's called the jump button. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.
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#70ClericIdolaPosted 2/18/2013 10:20:20 AM
I LOVED the idea of a dodge button in Bayonetta, and I think it's a great idea brought (back) to the DMC games. It does a lot in making combat feel a lot more fluid and a lot less stiff. (Don't get me wrong, I was a beast at the DMC games during their hay-day, but after playing Bayonetta it's just really hard to go back the overall mechanics.) Even though Trickster was my primary Style in DMC3 (and I loved it), I still think it ultimately places an unnecessary limitation on the player when they have to choose between offense or defense in a series of games that emphasis free-form, stylized combat. This is proven by the fact that Bayonetta is able to perform a huge portion of the moves both Dante and Nero can perform throughout all of their Styles, but without being restricted to one particular Style at a time. (Although Bayonetta is restricted to, most of the time, her current weapon set(s). For example, you can't perform any Devil Bringer/Osiris-like techniques unless you have the Kulshedra whip equipped.)

I really believe if Capcom removed the Style System from DMC5, they could easily incorporate most of those moves into Dante/Nero's move sets at one time. If anything, if a seperate dodge button is brought back to the series they could easily incorporate the Trickster moveset into it in a similar manner to how Bayonetta executes "The Beast Within". (Double-tapping for teleportation, for example. The Dash move itself could be totally removed simply because an expanded evasive manuever would make it irrelevant.)
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