Didn't Dante royally screw the pooch on this? *ending spoilers*

#11MoreFunThanTVPosted 3/11/2013 6:58:40 AM
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
The thing here is, it was Vergil who destroyed the Hell Gate.
It was Vergil that caused this issue. Vergil tasked Dante will killing Mundus pretty much and Vergil was the one that destroyed the Hell Gate, leading to this even to happen in the first place. Dante didn't know in the least and all blame should be Vergil's, even though its not even implied that he knew the demons would leak into the real world anyways.
The Hell Gate is what gave Mundus his super demon powers, so ultimately, it was still pretty necessary to take it out.

That aside though, there's nothing to suggest it's not possible for the world of DmC to not end up becoming a world similar to the original DMCs. In the original DMCs, demons were amongst the humans and while hidden, were still prominent enough for Dante to have a business centered around exterminating them. If the manga's and the anime are anything to go off of, demons were rather prominent in the real world.
If these people are able to make facebook, twitter, and youtube posts about the demons, I'm leaning towards the idea that the demons aren't systematically eradicating the human race and their world will become more similar to the original DMCs with Dante making a business of killing demons.
But that's just me.

The people tweeting seemed like survivors to me but no I don't think the demons were doing any type of planned human eradication either but more similar to what you'd get if suddenly the lion cages opened up into the antelope cages at the zoo, basically they're just as confused as the humans are and depending on exactly how many demons did cross over yeah I suppose it's possible for things to quiet down eventually (but probably after a HUGE human death toll).

Though the main point I was trying to make with my last post was that whether or not Dante knew what would be the result of his and Vergil's actions after doing it he acted like it was a good thing which I don't see how it is at all and the only way they can make this series like the old one is if they completely ignore the fact that it's his fault the demons he's so valiantly charging money to fight are here in the first place.

It'd be the demonic equivalent of someone setting rats free in your house and then charging you to kill them lol.

With some changes I can see it working though, for example make it not actually a business so he's not actually charging money to clean up his mess (maybe he changes the Order's name to Devil May Cry), make his goal actually be to correct his huge screw up so he fights the demons for this reason or if they're gonna keep acting like it's a good thing then explain why/make up a reason why it is.
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Divine Goddess of All That Is Prolix.
#12DaAzureGrimoirePosted 3/11/2013 1:56:04 PM
MoreFunThanTV posted...
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
The thing here is, it was Vergil who destroyed the Hell Gate.
It was Vergil that caused this issue. Vergil tasked Dante will killing Mundus pretty much and Vergil was the one that destroyed the Hell Gate, leading to this even to happen in the first place. Dante didn't know in the least and all blame should be Vergil's, even though its not even implied that he knew the demons would leak into the real world anyways.
The Hell Gate is what gave Mundus his super demon powers, so ultimately, it was still pretty necessary to take it out.

That aside though, there's nothing to suggest it's not possible for the world of DmC to not end up becoming a world similar to the original DMCs. In the original DMCs, demons were amongst the humans and while hidden, were still prominent enough for Dante to have a business centered around exterminating them. If the manga's and the anime are anything to go off of, demons were rather prominent in the real world.
If these people are able to make facebook, twitter, and youtube posts about the demons, I'm leaning towards the idea that the demons aren't systematically eradicating the human race and their world will become more similar to the original DMCs with Dante making a business of killing demons.
But that's just me.

The people tweeting seemed like survivors to me but no I don't think the demons were doing any type of planned human eradication either but more similar to what you'd get if suddenly the lion cages opened up into the antelope cages at the zoo, basically they're just as confused as the humans are and depending on exactly how many demons did cross over yeah I suppose it's possible for things to quiet down eventually (but probably after a HUGE human death toll).

Though the main point I was trying to make with my last post was that whether or not Dante knew what would be the result of his and Vergil's actions after doing it he acted like it was a good thing which I don't see how it is at all and the only way they can make this series like the old one is if they completely ignore the fact that it's his fault the demons he's so valiantly charging money to fight are here in the first place.

It'd be the demonic equivalent of someone setting rats free in your house and then charging you to kill them lol.

With some changes I can see it working though, for example make it not actually a business so he's not actually charging money to clean up his mess (maybe he changes the Order's name to Devil May Cry), make his goal actually be to correct his huge screw up so he fights the demons for this reason or if they're gonna keep acting like it's a good thing then explain why/make up a reason why it is.


The reason they acted like they did such a good thing was they put humanity back in control. Dante and Vergil both acknowledge that destroying the Hell Gate means someones gotta help the humans out, but it could've been better addressed I admit.
I mean, the moral standpoint of him starting a business about slaying demons is irrelevant to me, cause whether he charges or not, he'll still have to have some form of business slaying them. I also doubt that Dante would be the only person slaying demons too. Considering how the old series had demon slayers other than Dante, I'd imagine the same could possibly occur in the new universe.
Anyways, all I'm really saying is that there's a lot they can go with in regards to how Dante handles cleaning up his and Vergil's accidental mess.
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Formely: Hellfire-Bahamu
#13SephirothDZXPosted 3/11/2013 2:06:28 PM
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
MoreFunThanTV posted...
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
Also, all they really did was make the world more similar to The original series works, with demons now being and integrated part of the world.


Well sure the old DMC's world had demons in the human world but as far as I could tell barring human intervention or a powerful demon coming over to our side the world wasn't filled with demon hordes rampaging through the streets like what seems to be the case here.

And plus the big key difference is it wasn't Dante's fault that the world was filled with demons. This would be like if for example Persona 3 ended with you making it so Shadows could go where ever they please at anytime of day and the heroes acted like this was a good thing since now everyone knows about the existence of Shadows and the 13th hour when it really isn't since you just unleashed ungodly monsters upon an unprepared public that's probably gonna get completely stomped due to their lack of abilities to fight against them.

Sure most RPGs have worlds filled with monsters anyway, but the big difference is it's usually not the hero's fault it's like that.


The thing here is, it was Vergil who destroyed the Hell Gate.
It was Vergil that caused this issue. Vergil tasked Dante will killing Mundus pretty much and Vergil was the one that destroyed the Hell Gate, leading to this even to happen in the first place. Dante didn't know in the least and all blame should be Vergil's, even though its not even implied that he knew the demons would leak into the real world anyways.
The Hell Gate is what gave Mundus his super demon powers, so ultimately, it was still pretty necessary to take it out.

That aside though, there's nothing to suggest it's not possible for the world of DmC to not end up becoming a world similar to the original DMCs. In the original DMCs, demons were amongst the humans and while hidden, were still prominent enough for Dante to have a business centered around exterminating them. If the manga's and the anime are anything to go off of, demons were rather prominent in the real world.
If these people are able to make facebook, twitter, and youtube posts about the demons, I'm leaning towards the idea that the demons aren't systematically eradicating the human race and their world will become more similar to the original DMCs with Dante making a business of killing demons.
But that's just me.


Except Vergil's plan also ended with up ruling and protecting humans, so if he did factor in Limbo/Real World merging he would have probably had a plan in place to re-stabalize the world. Dante, however, screwed that up.
#14alfred_ashfordPosted 3/11/2013 2:18:05 PM(edited)
Well what if Vergil did know about the demons? What else would he have to protect humanity from? I think this is plan.

For a second I though Vergil was gonna take the hell gate powers for himself honestly.

edit: how exactly is this dante's fault? did dante formulate a plan to stop mindus or was he just vergil's pawn? cause me thinks vergil is the one who articulated the plan and even made an organization to fullfill it. and he always had the intention of ruling humanity instead of mundus. so again, how is any of this dante's fault?
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Jackie Chan is the nicest guy but everyone wants to mess with him - Pablo Francisco
#15ZeroX91Posted 3/11/2013 2:22:20 PM
You know the internet has ruined that colloquialism for me.
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Official Pyro Jack of the SMT IV board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui4zPwRmSFA
#16FulvipPosted 3/11/2013 2:27:30 PM(edited)
Can someone explain this to me?
They have Limbo and yet call a Gate to Limbo Hellgate.
Mundus takes energy from the gate and is invencible.
Vergil destroys the gate instead of closing it and no one mentions it,
Suddenly it's hell on earth and Mundus can be defeated.
He is a demon god in his own element and that makes him weaker?

Also, freedom and sludge free drinks in exchange for the doom of mankind.
Nice going.
---
Official Auron of the boards. The only one bad*** enough to like Light.
CP: TERA, MGR, TR
#17ZeroX91Posted 3/11/2013 2:27:40 PM
Fulvip posted...
Can someone explain this to me?
They have Limbo and yet call a Gate to Limbo Hellgate.
Mundus takes energy from the gate and is invencible.
Vergil destroys the gate instead of closing it and no one mentions it,
Suddenly it's hell on earth and Mundus can be defeated.
He is a demon god in his own element and that makes him weaker?


The Hellgate exist in Limbo, Limbo is the "border realm" between the two.
---
Official Pyro Jack of the SMT IV board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui4zPwRmSFA
#18DaAzureGrimoirePosted 3/11/2013 5:27:53 PM
SephirothDZX posted...
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
MoreFunThanTV posted...
DaAzureGrimoire posted...
Also, all they really did was make the world more similar to The original series works, with demons now being and integrated part of the world.


Well sure the old DMC's world had demons in the human world but as far as I could tell barring human intervention or a powerful demon coming over to our side the world wasn't filled with demon hordes rampaging through the streets like what seems to be the case here.

And plus the big key difference is it wasn't Dante's fault that the world was filled with demons. This would be like if for example Persona 3 ended with you making it so Shadows could go where ever they please at anytime of day and the heroes acted like this was a good thing since now everyone knows about the existence of Shadows and the 13th hour when it really isn't since you just unleashed ungodly monsters upon an unprepared public that's probably gonna get completely stomped due to their lack of abilities to fight against them.

Sure most RPGs have worlds filled with monsters anyway, but the big difference is it's usually not the hero's fault it's like that.


The thing here is, it was Vergil who destroyed the Hell Gate.
It was Vergil that caused this issue. Vergil tasked Dante will killing Mundus pretty much and Vergil was the one that destroyed the Hell Gate, leading to this even to happen in the first place. Dante didn't know in the least and all blame should be Vergil's, even though its not even implied that he knew the demons would leak into the real world anyways.
The Hell Gate is what gave Mundus his super demon powers, so ultimately, it was still pretty necessary to take it out.

That aside though, there's nothing to suggest it's not possible for the world of DmC to not end up becoming a world similar to the original DMCs. In the original DMCs, demons were amongst the humans and while hidden, were still prominent enough for Dante to have a business centered around exterminating them. If the manga's and the anime are anything to go off of, demons were rather prominent in the real world.
If these people are able to make facebook, twitter, and youtube posts about the demons, I'm leaning towards the idea that the demons aren't systematically eradicating the human race and their world will become more similar to the original DMCs with Dante making a business of killing demons.
But that's just me.


Except Vergil's plan also ended with up ruling and protecting humans, so if he did factor in Limbo/Real World merging he would have probably had a plan in place to re-stabalize the world. Dante, however, screwed that up.


Except Vergil's plan seemed to be more like ruling or atleast that seemed to be what he was more interested in doing. The re-stabilizing the real world and what not is just an assumption from his "We'll be nice to our subjects" comment, which he only mentioned after Dante criticized his decision and clearly showed that he looked down on humans, so I don't think claiming Vergil had overall good intentions is a good one to go off of, especially considering VD.
The only thing Dante is really guilty of is trying to stop his brother from becoming another Mundus, which, ironically, he becomes anyways.
Even if Vergil knew that destroying the Hellgate would merge the two worlds, there's nothing to imply he did. We just know he was using everyone so he could become king.
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Formely: Hellfire-Bahamu