Will you regard Lucifer as ...

#41pyro_buntaPosted 3/20/2013 12:05:31 AM
because Dante WHIPPED IT OUT
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...for Tony Redgrave...
#42sillycatstevenPosted 3/20/2013 1:35:58 AM
Lucifer is only bad if you cant use it properly. Eryx is just bad.
Eryx is a boring weapon with boring move-set and actually achieved what Tameem said would happen to the old Dante if he walks into a bar: get laughed out. Erxy looks like a pair of toy Gorilla arms after they set the dye to the wrong color.
it's got the worst exploitable move: the mario stomp, where you can just stay in the air and charge to max power against most enemies.
it's got the worst button input for a move: forward, forward triangle for a move that does a dodge back first.
it's also got a move (rising dragon punch) specifically designed to counter one attack from a enemy, which there are other ways to counter the same move with even better results (demon dodge)....
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#43ReiderAsmadiPosted 3/20/2013 2:56:32 AM
Strelok posted...
That... honor... is reserved for Eryx.
I'm Donte the f***ing Sailorman.
I'm Donte the motherf***ing Sailorman.
My games a bore and my moms a whore
I'm Donte the f***ing Sailorman!
*TOOT TOOT!*


I KNEW I wasn't the only one who thought of Popeye with those damn arms!

+1 to you good sir.
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Gamertag: LordReider
Ambition is just a weak excuse for not having the sense to be lazy.
#44SBK91Posted 3/20/2013 5:12:18 AM
You can do amazing combos and extend them and even kill in creating ways.

Examples?

I'm just gonna say any default sword is the worst

>Rebellion
>bad

NOPE. The fact Prop Shredder launches both variety of Angelos without failure makes it invaluble. Its fast, great reach, solid damage, combos the most smoothly of any DA, Helm Breaker is an excellent crowd control attack, Sword Pierce lets you play pseudo-Gunslinger, and Dance Macabre is the best 'standard' ground Crazy Combo in the game.

when dante hits with second hit during deep impact, DT.

That's not how you use RI optimally.
#45Psychochild27Posted 3/20/2013 7:43:18 AM
Noted. Wouldn't it be more effective if swarmed by easily stunned enemies, though, to jump out of the crowd and whore Overdrive/Pandora? Better style and likely better damage too.


Not necessarily. Also, that sounds profoundly boring.


why bother learning to JC Aerial Raves in DMC3 when you can just get in a corner with Spiral and go to town?


Because Vergil doesn't get Spiral.


In that case, why bother learning to JC aerial raves when you can do much more damage spamming ground combos and mashing the shoot button as hard as you possibly can?

But not efficient. This topic is about the worst weapon in DMC. That would include it's ability to efficiently handling combat, which Lucifer is lacking in (based on my experience).


Lucifer has a great wide melee hitbox on its normal combo strings which Rebellion can't meet. It's a fantastic crowd-control weapon because it allows you to load up pins easily with Pin-Up alone that will hit-stun multiple enemies on command (Or after X amount of seconds). Lucifer can easily be applied on enemies who have defensive mechanics such as Angelos and Blitzes which Pin Up, Discipline and Bondage will pierce the shield without parrying the blows as well as Chimera'd enemies where you can also apply the blades while you're shooting at them to remove their vines.

Yes, you can buffer its Discipline and Bondage attacks regardless of what Dante is doing short of Swordmaster moves.

Want to Sky Star away from an enemy and load them up with pins while Dante's locked in his dash animation? Lucifer lets you do that. Priming up a Judgment Cut, a Pandora laser attack or a Honeycomb Shot? You can get a Discipline or a Bondage going at the same time (And Honeycomb Shot will still hold while you're doing it). While Discipline is centered on Dante, Bondage has unlimited effective range, meaning that you can easily have Dante change targets and slap some pins on an enemy on the other side of the room while comboing a different enemy. It also means Dante can easily do a Sky Star->Rain Storm hop over an enemy or just keep them suspended with normal E&I gunfire and load them up with pins at the same time.

How is the ability to set up large burst damage while performing other actions not efficient? Pin Up gives you a lot of pins on demand in under half a second and even if you don't, Discipline, Bondage and Climax give you two free pins. That's pretty much free damage right there.

In what degree outside comboing, which if you're skilled enough to do in the first place weapon ability doesn't matter? What situations are best tackled by Lucifer? Stripping the shield off a Blitz safely, staggering/damaging a boss at the beginning of a fight, Combat Adjucators, and easy damage with Pin Up against large targets (though far inferior to what Gilgamesh can do).


See above. Besides allowing you to link attacks that would never connect smoothly between Gilgamesh and Rebellion, it's spectacular when mixed with Trickster, Darkslayer, Gunslinger or even Royal Guard if you're hesitating for a moment to bait out an attack to release.

But does it launch grounded enemies who are still standing as well as Prop Shredder? Angelos? DTed scarecrows? How does the launching ability compare to the stun of Million Stab, Dance Macabre, Drive, RI, Kick-13, etc?


It's about as effective as a high time at launching meaning it flies well against anything un-DT'ed except for Angelos and Blitzes, but it can be used in the air to relaunch and the hitbox has the length of a Stinger (More if you're in the air as it travels at an arc). None of the moves you mentioned above can claim that - Even High Time won't relaunch an enemy if he's near the peak of his ascent while Lucifer will.
#46ZeroX91Posted 3/20/2013 9:18:41 AM
I said worst, not useless they are boring weapons with generic movesets any weapon combo you get later in the game can do the same with less boring results. I would much rather launch something and start an air combo then stun somethin with a move you can't cancel out of.
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#47gregamastaPosted 3/20/2013 10:22:31 AM
produner posted...
This is getting worse day by day . Gfaqs can we get an IQ filter? AND NOW.


But then this site would close because no one would be able to sign in or sign up.
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#48SBK91Posted 3/20/2013 11:51:37 AM
Not necessarily.

A scarecrow on DMD can take seven Lucifer Combo A's and will die from the detonating swords first. It takes two or three uncharged Overdrives or Revenges, or one charged Overdrive (which can kill a DTed scarecrow). Overdrive/Revenge can be spammed from a distance, stuns better and generates far more style. It's unlikely to connect with all the hits of Lucifer's combos against every scarecrow in the group, whereas the others are consistant.

Also, that sounds profoundly boring.

Subjective and has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the tactic.

why bother learning to JC aerial raves when you can do much more damage spamming ground combos and mashing the shoot button as hard as you possibly can?

Because Aerial Rave has a larger AoE and probably higher DPS than Beowulf Combo 1/Lunar Phase?

Lucifer has a great wide melee hitbox on its normal combo strings which Rebellion can't meet.

Which isn't useful the majority of time when you're only fightning one enemy, and Rebellion is much stronger.

It's a fantastic crowd-control weapon because it allows you to load up pins easily with Pin-Up alone that will hit-stun multiple enemies on command

Pin Up doesn't stun by itself and typically doesn't stick more than 2-3 swords in an enemy with each use. DTed Stingers/Revenges/Overdrives handle weaker crowds better.

Lucifer can easily be applied on enemies who have defensive mechanics such as Angelos

Prop Shredder/Dance Macabre->Real Impact. Faster, easier, and more consistant.

Blitzes which Pin Up, Discipline and Bondage will pierce the shield without parrying the blows

One of it's more noteworthy uses. That said, parrying is faster and requires no set up if you have the skill.

as well as Chimera'd enemies where you can also apply the blades while you're shooting at them to remove their vines

A fair point.

Yes, you can buffer its Discipline and Bondage attacks regardless of what Dante is doing short of Swordmaster moves.

Which requires having Lucifer equipped, instead of the stronger Rebellion/Gilgamesh.

Want to Sky Star away from an enemy and load them up with pins while Dante's locked in his dash animation?

How is this particularly efficient for combat though?

You can get a Discipline or a Bondage going at the same time

Which requires having set swords up ahead of time if you don't want just two (read: not pounding the crap out of things).

meaning that you can easily have Dante change targets and slap some pins on an enemy on the other side of the room while comboing a different enemy

But what does this accomplish outside comboing? Wouldn't it be better to focus fire on a single enemy with Rebellion/Gilgamesh/Yamato etc?

It also means Dante can easily do a Sky Star->Rain Storm hop over an enemy

Neat. Of what practical use is this? Is it good for bosses? Frosts? Angelos? Fausts? Blitzes?
#49SBK91Posted 3/20/2013 11:57:38 AM(edited)
How is the ability to set up large burst damage while performing other actions not efficient?

How are you setting up 'large damage' while performing other Actions? Pin Up and Splash are the only fast ways of building swords and you can't perform other Actions during them. By the time the swords detonate by themselves you could have already killed whatever you're fighting, and Pin Up has issues with it's lack of stun, inability to hit some knocked over foes, pushing enemies out of the swords, and not sticking small enemies with all the swords.

Also, note a fifteen sword detonation is weaker than Dance Macabre or Real Impact, and that's without distortion.

Discipline, Bondage and Climax give you two free pins.

When you don't have any out already. Synergizes pretty bad with Pin Up against most normal enemies.

That's pretty much free damage right there.

I have never seen the 'free damage' from Discipline/Bondage make up for the damage gap between Lucifer and Rebellion/Gilgamesh.

Besides allowing you to link attacks that would never connect smoothly between Gilgamesh and Rebellion

Why is this useful though?

it's spectacular when mixed with Trickster, Darkslayer, Gunslinger or even Royal Guard if you're hesitating for a moment to bait out an attack to release.

So it's something to use when you have nothing better to do?

meaning it flies well against anything un-DT'ed except for Angelos and Blitzes

And Frosts (which Prop Shredder does better). I'd say being able to launch Angelo's and superior for Frosts is pretty important.

None of the moves you mentioned above can claim that

And Ecstasy can't launch/stagger a standing Alto in one use. Or wipe out multiple scarecrows. Or one shot every normal enemy in the game short of a Blitz.

they are boring weapons with generic movesets

Nice opinion you got there.

any weapon combo you get later in the game can do the same with less boring results.

How many attacks in DMC4 can consistantly launch an Alto Angelo in less than a second again? What's the fastest way of dealing with Geryon S1 short of Royalguard? How many lunge attacks have the reach of Stinger? Which weapon has the highest DPS on its ground strings again in DMC3?
#50Xtreme65Posted 3/20/2013 12:19:03 PM
DMC1 Force Edge is the worst. Thats just a fact people. As soon as you get Alastor you will NEVER touch Force Edge again. At least Eryx has a useful stomp attack and its air punch is good for ending air combos with. Lucifer while not very practical its at least fun to play with.
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When coincidence is so convenient, I prefer to call it fate.