Regarding Vergil... *Spoilers*

#1CirOnnPosted 3/23/2013 4:19:41 PM
I'm curious about two things:

1. Do people consider Vergil a villain? I could understand his side and was genuinely intrigued to hear his entire proposition. And if completely out of his mind I'm pretty sure he could be convinced by other means rather than a full-blown battle to the death, he seemed way more rational than Dante. Both brothers over reacted a lot at the end.

Please, disconsider Vergil's Downfall, I have yet to play it.

2. Compared to the older DMC, how does this Vergil fare in terms of being relegated as a villainous figure by the end? I'm curious to know if he is at odds with his brother as well and if so, if he ever found his redemption and a common ground with Dante.
#2Qwesar23464Posted 3/23/2013 5:18:44 PM
1. Both sides are considered rather tasteless thanks to their part in merging Limbo and the human world, so he's still considered pretty villainous, I believe.

2.DMC Vergil's status as a villain are considered a...touchy subject. But his motivations are widely agreed upon and IMO, he ends up finding some common ground with Dante to the extent he was able to in the end. (sorry, for being vague, don't wanna spoil original DMCs if you haven't played.)
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#3JanneDaArc135Posted 3/23/2013 6:02:49 PM
Are we talking about Vergil or Vorgil?
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#4RayconPosted 3/23/2013 6:07:57 PM
I'd actually consider DmC Vergil much more of a protagonist than even Donte. In fact, I'd say his idea at the end was a fairly sound one. It was Donte who struck me as the troublemaker, sparking a conflict where one wasn't necessary simply because his girlfriend got dissed.

DMC Vergil was a much fuzzier subject.
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#5darkdragon_9600Posted 3/23/2013 6:11:44 PM
1- By the end of the game, I liked Vergil more than Donte. While his wording was poor, his idea wasn't so bad. If only he had said "lead" instead of "rule"...Oh well.

2- Howevah, things change. By the end of VD, he is much worse than DMC Vergil.
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#6StrykeBlaydePosted 3/23/2013 7:32:22 PM
darkdragon_9600 posted...
1- By the end of the game, I liked Vergil more than Donte. While his wording was poor, his idea wasn't so bad. If only he had said "lead" instead of "rule"...Oh well.


I didn't even think he was turning until 3 lines in.

Vergil: "The path is clear for us to rule" -at this point, I didn't even think of it as him/Dante ruling, moreso the humans themselves-
Dante/Kat: "What did you say?"
*Vergil repeats*
Dante: "You mean like Mundus?"
Vergil: "Not at all like Mundus. We respect our subjects..." -And that is where I went "Oooooh, THAT'S what they're gettin' hissy about....-
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#7syctheweilderPosted 3/23/2013 7:49:41 PM(edited)
I see what they were trying to do with vorgil and donte.

One's brash, rowdy and pretty much a top-tier A-hole, and the other's polite, refined and forward thinking.

Then it turns out the more agreeable of the two is the sinister villain and the curmudgeon is the hero.

The problem with these two characters being set up as representatives of chaos and law comes with positing that Mr. Chaos is the one that has humanity's best interests at heart when that is pretty much the very worst way to go when dealing with the fallout that comes after removing a despot(if you can really call him that) from power.

Ideally, merging limbo with the real world would be treated as the ultimate consequence for humanity's freedom. It would be an agonizing choice and point of contention for the two brothers.

Obviously Vergil would prefer the separate state; in which Mundus is removed from the equation with Dante and himself taking his place at the hellgate. Humankind would remain oblivious to any goings on, and Vergil can continue to silently keep watch over what would become his dominion, while managing the demonic threat behind the scenes.

Dante would want total transparency, and start an all out war with the demons. A more direct, honest approach, but impractical and dangerous. But to the naive mind, a more heroic and admirable effort. Revolution speaks to the juvenile mind.

In a perfect world, each outlook would be presented frankly, the questionable morality of Vergil's method, and the irresponsibility of Dante's.

"What gives you the right to play with their lives?"

"Better they still have lives to live, brother."

Regardless of the choice made, it would cast a rift between the two, which would set the stage for a hypothetical sequel perfectly, in which Vergil and Dante's ultimately irreconcilable philosophies are what tear their brotherhood apart- not Kat.
#8NostalgiaRulesPosted 3/23/2013 7:42:50 PM(edited)
CirOnn posted...
I'm curious about two things:

1. Do people consider Vergil a villain? I could understand his side and was genuinely intrigued to hear his entire proposition. And if completely out of his mind I'm pretty sure he could be convinced by other means rather than a full-blown battle to the death, he seemed way more rational than Dante. Both brothers over reacted a lot at the end.

Please, disconsider Vergil's Downfall, I have yet to play it.

2. Compared to the older DMC, how does this Vergil fare in terms of being relegated as a villainous figure by the end? I'm curious to know if he is at odds with his brother as well and if so, if he ever found his redemption and a common ground with Dante.


I actually don't consider DmC Vergil to be a real bad guy. Honestly, at the end before the DmC Dante and Vergil were about to fight, Vergil explained his plan, and Dante was not only quick to have a kneejerk reaction, he also put words in his brother's mouth. He automatically assumed that Vergil wanted the worst for humanity. And Dante wasn't even happy when he was reunited with his brother after so long. I don't mean to sound mean, but I don't think DmC Dante ever cared for his twin.

Well, this DmC Vergil seems...sorry for the lack of a better word...he seems a bit petty at the end. (you'd have to play Vergil's Downfall to know what I'm talking about...or I could just tell you, if you don't mind spoilers)

But if you don't count Vergil's Downfall at all, hen I don't even really consider Vergil as a real bad guy. Though after those awful scenes with Kat and Lilith, it's crystal clear that he lacks a soft spot for humanity...and....(sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing again)...he kind of lacks honor, too. The hostage scene with Lilith...(shudders)
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Newer isn't always better.
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#9CirOnn(Topic Creator)Posted 3/23/2013 10:22:17 PM(edited)
Wow, some very good answers regarding Vergil's psychology/ representation. Thanks! And I mostly agree with all of you guys. I feel like that if a sequel to this game is ever made, I fear they will take the easy route and just plain put Vergil as a full villain... Such a shame. But hey, maybe it'll never get a sequel and I'll simply make up my own ending to the bros' feud.

And I don't really care a lot about the spoilers anymore, I accidentally ruined the DLC plot by reading a non-marked topic about it... SIgh. If you feel like concluding your line of thought, Nostalgia, please feel free!
#10NostalgiaRulesPosted 3/23/2013 10:51:12 PM
CirOnn posted...
Wow, some very good answers regarding Vergil's psychology/ representation. Thanks! And I mostly agree with all of you guys. I feel like that if a sequel to this game is ever made, I fear they will take the easy route and just plain put Vergil as a full villain... Such a shame. But hey, maybe it'll never get a sequel and I'll simply make up my own ending to the bros' feud.

And I don't really care a lot about the spoilers anymore, I accidentally ruined the DLC plot by reading a non-marked topic about it... SIgh. If you feel like concluding your line of thought, Nostalgia, please feel free!


Okay, cool. :)

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!


Vergil's Downfall actually takes place in Vergil's subconscious. He falls to the ground nearly dead from the wound that Dante had inflicted on him. Vergil enters his subconscious. He sees an evil doppleganger of himself (and what he'll become at the end of this DLC). The doppleganger starts telling Vergil how weak he is and that he should gain more power. A beating heart appears and three holes are in it. Vergil starts encountering Kat, Dante and even his mother, Eva. None of this is real now. It all takes place in his mind.

I'll try to make this short and give a summary of what happens. Vergil encounters Kat, who is being chased by a demon. Vergil saves her, but she turns all evil and tells Vergil how weak he is, and that Dante is a real man. She turns into a demon and Vergil kills her. He looks like he feels bad for a second, but then his eyes turn red.

He then encounters Dante, he starts mocking Vergil and says, "how does it feel to lose to me again?" Vergil defeats Dante and gets stronger.

Vergil encounters his mother and saves her from a demon. Vergil walks up to her and tells her that he killed Dante. This is where I think Vergil starts getting petty. Vergil proceeds to tell his mother that "she loved Dante more than him." Eva pleads with her son that it isn't true and that she loved both him and Dante equally. Vergil tells his mother that he no longer has a heart and turns his back on her.

Vergil returns to the doppleganger, defeats him and the three holes in the heart closes. The heart represents Vergil. The three holes represent Dante, Kat and Eva. Vergil feels wounded by the people that he cared about the most. When the holes closed, that represented Vergil wiping his feelings for his loved ones from his heart and turning to the side of evil.

Dante, I understand. To me, Dante never seemed to show an ounce of love or caring for his own twin. And, as cruel as it sounds, Dante actually almost did succeed in killing Vergil. Kat did stop Dante, but Vergil succumbed to his wounds...the wounds inflicted by Dante. As sad as it sounds, Vergil's bitterness and hatred is what kept him from dying.

What I don't get is his bitterness for Kat and Eva. To Vergil, it seemed that she cared more about Dante than him, even though Vergil had been the one to rescue her from her past life (though calling her "useful" really didn't help things). His bitterness towards his mother made no sense at all. He was looking at things the wrong way is what it was. It seemed to me that the only bitterness was harbored to Dante, but it bled over into bitterness towards Kat and Eva.


Dante seemed to only care about Kat and not Vergil. They had differences, but Vergil was able to push those things back and still embrace his twin. Dante seemed to reject that through most of the game. He didn't even seem surprised when he saw his identical twin, his own mirror image, looking back at him. I figured after being alone for so long, he'd latch on to the last remaining member of his family.

Phew! That took awhile to write. But that's my take on it. Hope it made sense.
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Newer isn't always better.
And I shall keep Dante's Force Edge polished and sharp till he comes back.