Why is Tomb Raider a success but DmC isn't?

#51syctheweilderPosted 4/3/2013 11:42:02 PM
RichterB17 posted...
produner posted...
RichterB17 posted...
Orange00 posted...
Richter, yea you got my respect, if that means anything to you lol

maybe the problem with DmC is really it's similarity (while missing the standards set by DMC4). If it went full throttle to more casual online shooter with *some* hack n slash elements, it could've created a new fanbase and gather some money while at it. But would you guys be happy with that? A successful casualization with great sales taking completely over older DMC? Now at least you guys got a chance to see old DMC again.. and play something that's at least somewhat alike older games..


You mean if they kept this style and went and had online or old DMC with online? If we are talking about online I think what would really help DMC as a franchise would be the inclusion of Co-Op. I know people hate hearing this, but people have know idea how much co-op can just add to the experience and brings in more people. If done right that could be a big selling point for Devil May Cry.

Other than that I just wished the franchise had just upped their quality more. I'm looking at MGSV and the graphics, and the cinematic of the game look amazing. I wish Capcom could do something like that with Devil May Cry but as a company I believe they just lack the talent for something like that.

I've been thinking about nukeboys topic and to a point I think he is right. Graphics and scale can really sell a game and that's what Devil May Cry needs. Straight up action games won't be able to survive on single player alone anymore. These games need to be longer and bigger in order for these games to sell.

Hey man thanks for the respect. I seriously don't want to fight anymore, I just want to discuss about this series because I'm a fan and fans shouldn't be fighting other fans.


For a graphically good game, DMC4 nailed it with great graphics and high consistent frame rate. The only problem is consoles are outdated and pushing them to there limits will hinder the frame rate and performance, which DMC's combat rely on as much as fighting games.

DMC4 was doing fine and the series was gaining more fans and attention. DMC 5 , if made , could have outsold DMC4 by a lot.


You think so? Honestly I think if they had kept up with that style of gameplay I don't think the series would survive very long. DMC4 had problems that makes it feel a bit outdated like the fixed camera and a pretty static but beautiful environment.

Devil May Cry needs up the scales and kinda bring it back to its roots. They need to put Dante in a giant area like a castle and some surrounding land or put Dante through a journey across many towns and environments with some exploration. I'm seeing a lot more people say that these type of games are too short and not worth the price. DMC4 was great for the time but the games need to be something bigger than that, but that's how I feel.

I also think they need humanize Dante more, make him a little weak because in DMC4 he was way too strong. This is why a reboot that strongly resembles Classic DMC just done in a better way could work.


If anything made DMC4 feel dated, it was the way the screen freezes when the player interacts with an object and the text scrolls.

The core gameplay however, was, and some might say still is cutting edge, if only because the hack n slash genre's taken quite a few steps backwards.
#52Orange00Posted 4/3/2013 11:52:36 PM
i was talking more along the lines what TR did. Make DMC into a third person shooter with some hack n slash. Maybe something similar to what RE6 had for melee fighting except a little more complicated. You know, a casual shooter with melee fighting and setting working as it's gimmick to make it different enough from rest of the masses. It's not what i truly want from a DMC game, but if capcom really wanted to appeal to casual gamers...

i agree that DMC didn't have future as it was after DMC4. DmC obviously wasn't the correct way either, they need something more. Hack n slash just doesn't cut it anymore. Bayonetta proves this, it's like DMC refined to perfection but sales are still somewhat iffy. As for why GoW sells? Scale, sex and violence?

. Multiplayer could be one possibility. Co-op, and also i've been raving many times how i'd hope DMC to take one more step towards fighting games and have a duel mode. Simple 1 on 1 fighting without sacrificing single player experience. Capcom knows their fighting games and people know this.
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#53produnerPosted 4/3/2013 11:53:27 PM
richterB17

I don't really think that DMC4's gameplay was a problem, Infact it was its selling point. The game didn't really feel outdated since it introduced new game mechanics , and as an evidence the community was growing large and high level stuff became the norm during DMC4.

Things like the camera and environment are static for most games, but I'll tell you what was going stale and felt outdated in DMC , it is the puzzles and platforming. DMC needs new puzzles and platforming that is challenging and heavily related to gameplay mastery. DMC4 succeeded in platforming with Nero and they should've added things like platforming that requires mastery or adaption to trickster and Ariel combat to reach the other platform.
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#54RichterB17Posted 4/4/2013 5:16:53 AM
Orange00 posted...
i was talking more along the lines what TR did. Make DMC into a third person shooter with some hack n slash. Maybe something similar to what RE6 had for melee fighting except a little more complicated. You know, a casual shooter with melee fighting and setting working as it's gimmick to make it different enough from rest of the masses. It's not what i truly want from a DMC game, but if capcom really wanted to appeal to casual gamers...

Oh okay I see, I don't think that world work though. Just like RE6 it's a bit too awkward. I liked the 1 on 1 idea. If they ever decide to put multiplayer in DMC Co-op and 1 on 1 fighting should be explored.

produner posted...
richterB17

I don't really think that DMC4's gameplay was a problem, Infact it was its selling point. The game didn't really feel outdated since it introduced new game mechanics , and as an evidence the community was growing large and high level stuff became the norm during DMC4.

I wasn't trying to say that gameplay was a problem, but the environment and design of the game felt outdated.

Things like the camera and environment are static for most games, but I'll tell you what was going stale and felt outdated in DMC , it is the puzzles and platforming. DMC needs new puzzles and platforming that is challenging and heavily related to gameplay mastery. DMC4 succeeded in platforming with Nero and they should've added things like platforming that requires mastery or adaption to trickster and Ariel combat to reach the other platform.

Puzzles yes platforming nah. With platforming I seriously think they should just get rid of it all together. Also I shouldn't have used static when I was talking about the environment. What I meant to say that DMC4's environment, while beautiful, felt lifeless. Nothing moves likes trees and grass blowing in the wind, no puddles of water to ripple when walking through them. Just a boring and stale environment that doesn't move or interact with the player at all. I can't get into all the things I want to see in a DMC game, but a better environment is one of them.
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#55KyryloPosted 4/4/2013 10:00:09 AM
Tomb Raider: listens to fans loved by fans
DmC: screws fans, got screwed in return.
#56Malus_X6Posted 4/4/2013 1:02:56 PM
From: Kyrylo | #055
Tomb Raider: listens to fans loved by fans
DmC: screws fans, got screwed in return.

Not just screwed, but bent over and brutally buttf***ed with a branding iron :D
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#57Psychochild27Posted 4/4/2013 2:15:39 PM
Kyrylo posted...
Tomb Raider: listens to fans loved by fans
DmC: screws fans, got screwed in return.


Pretty much. As I said in the last thread on this topic, it is very telling when the last thing you see from the developers before the credits start rolling is a message thanking the player for taking the time to experience their game while DmC ends with Tim Phillips riding off on a skateboard flipping the viewer the bird.

One went to great extend to respect the fans that made the franchise what it is today. The other did nothing but try to incite them to create controversy and "Discussion" about their game that they were certain would lead to huge sales in spite of pissing off the original fanbase.


Devil May Cry needs up the scales and kinda bring it back to its roots. They need to put Dante in a giant area like a castle and some surrounding land or put Dante through a journey across many towns and environments with some exploration. I'm seeing a lot more people say that these type of games are too short and not worth the price. DMC4 was great for the time but the games need to be something bigger than that, but that's how I feel.


DMC4 was already that attempt though - While they missed the atmosphere and the narrative tone set in DMC1 by a mile (Which I don't think wasn't a focal point at all), from a gameplay perspective enemies were much, much closer to their DMC1 counterparts than DMC3 ever hoped to be from a design/movelist standpoint (And that isn't counting the two DMC1 direct carry-overs) and Nero's gameplay could easily be compared to DMC1 Dante's tight, concise and very effective movelist.

DMC4 was the attempt to bridge the insane combo engine of DMC3 with the enemy/gameplay sensibilities of DMC1. On that regard, it was highly successful, it's only a shame Dante's content didn't get the time and polish that Nero's did.
#58YamiJonzPosted 4/6/2013 12:47:44 AM
As a fan of both reboots I'd say, Tomb raider, because it's a generation older than devil may cry, and at one time sony 's mascot. So giving it a proper reboot would generate more intrest. Tomb raider also hadn't put out a major title in years. So what makes a bigger statement, reviving the living or reviving the dead? Not to mention DMC was bashed, from the start. They took a big risk is messing with an established character and the sales reflect this.
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