Finally Platinumed the ENTIRE series. (Spoilers probably)

#41Edward_R_MurrowPosted 4/24/2013 5:03:07 PM
Xtreme65 posted...
As for DMC3, Chess pieces anyone? The most complex enemies they have was blood goyles, the shield guys, and those things that disapear when you face them, all other enemies you just hack at till they are dead even the Fallen.


I don't know brother. I'd say the most complex DMC3 enemies were the Abyss, Arachnes, Hell Vanguards, and Fallen.

Bloodgoyles, Soul Eaters, and Dullahans were more just extremely, uh, linear (?) enemies kind of like the Enigmas in that while they didn't allow you to do just any series of actions to defeat them, they didn't really have too many viable ways to be effectively combated either. Which would make repeated encounters with such foes more and more stagnant as time goes on. There were only so many ways to kill a Soul Eater in a hallway, and few were better than parking in front of out, facing away, and then quickly locking on to face it when it re-materializes while blasting it in the face with a rocket.

Things like the Arachnes, HVGs, Abyss, and Fallen had more complex offensive/defensive AI schemes that both put up a bit of a fight while also allowing for more divergent strategies. It's not always the correct play to zone into a Fallen with Trickster and spam Aerial Cross. High power Gunslinger moves, Royal Guard, E&I-canceled Hammers...there's a lot of ways to go about taking them on.

That's the kind of enemy you want to aim for, and DMC4 did a pretty decent job in this respect. DmC...not so much.

It feels like far too many of the enemies aren't punching bags (only Stygians, Knights, and to a degree Ravagers) but are instead very linear foes. I don't feel like I have a lot of great choices when fighting Witches, Butchers, and Tyrants. It seems like the best play against a Butcher is to angle for the saw parry and then do your highest damage move in its stunned state. The optimal sequence of moves against Witches seems to be Round-Trip->Break Shield->Demon Pull->Highest damage move->Repeat until dead. Kinda gets boring, y'know?

Rages and Dreamrunners are about the only decent foes, and even they seem multi-linear at best and have highly annoying features too (overuse of super-armor frames, Ghost and Blood Rages, etc). But maybe I haven't really "solved" either of them yet. Who knows?
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#42darkslayer001Posted 4/24/2013 5:57:54 PM
Xtreme65 posted...
darkslayer001 posted...
Xtreme65 posted...
What DmC did right. If you take off your hatred goggles you can see. Giving us access to all weapons is a move in the right direction, combining Dante and Nero elements into one character, and being able to do a delayed combo when switching weapons, for example 2 hits with Rebellion and then do Trinity Smash, No other DMC does that nor does any other HnS game. (at least the ones I played.). No matter how you feel about the rest of the game, these 3 things were stteps in the right direction.


never knew downgrading was a step into the right direction...
lol delay combos
copying some Dante and Nero animations and making it look bad is not a step in the right direction.
you do realize DmC has only half the amount of moves when compared to Dante in DMC4?
the question of better combat has already been beaten to death around these boards, there is no point in correcting anyone anymore...


Nothing I mentioned in that post is a downgrade. Only additions. A downgrade would be say how DmC lacks styles or Exceed. Or how each weapon has less moves, 30fps. These are some of the things DmC did wrong.


gonna help you out here, combining Dante and Nero moves may or may not be a good thing, but it has already proven DmC has a very limited moveset.
Dante did have access to all weapons and styles at any moment (DMC4). The delays in weapon switching reduces combo possibilities actually.
btw those delays between weapon switching and attack animations are actual downgrades because in DMC games there were no delays between weapon switching and attack animations, so one has to rely on their reflexes and fast thinking to switch weapons and continue the combos rather than relying on a huge window of delay to think of the next move (kinda like God of War games). This is why DmC combo videos look less impressive and slow because by the time of the delay in DmC, one can input multiple different moves in DMC4.
The trinity smash connection moves (like in Bayonetta) could be considered a step forward, if it weren't filled with huge delays and heavy damage.
There are many other problems ( ex: lock-on) in DmC that just piles on whatever "new" things it tries to bring into the table. Not to mention the combat mechanics is actually dated. I would forgive this game if it came out 6yrs ago....
#43darkslayer001Posted 4/24/2013 5:59:24 PM
Xtreme65 posted...
darkslayer001 posted...
Xtreme65 posted...
What DmC did right. If you take off your hatred goggles you can see. Giving us access to all weapons is a move in the right direction, combining Dante and Nero elements into one character, and being able to do a delayed combo when switching weapons, for example 2 hits with Rebellion and then do Trinity Smash, No other DMC does that nor does any other HnS game. (at least the ones I played.). No matter how you feel about the rest of the game, these 3 things were stteps in the right direction.


never knew downgrading was a step into the right direction...
lol delay combos
copying some Dante and Nero animations and making it look bad is not a step in the right direction.
you do realize DmC has only half the amount of moves when compared to Dante in DMC4?
the question of better combat has already been beaten to death around these boards, there is no point in correcting anyone anymore...


Nothing I mentioned in that post is a downgrade. Only additions. A downgrade would be say how DmC lacks styles or Exceed. Or how each weapon has less moves, 30fps. These are some of the things DmC did wrong.


you do realize those downgrades you mentioned, along with no lock-on, has domino style downgrade effect?
#44StrelokPosted 4/25/2013 1:43:51 AM
Xtreme65 posted...
Strelok posted...
So...
DMC3 enemies are glorified punching bags but the "enemies" in this game are not?

DMC3 < DmC?

I never thought that I'd say this but...

Your opinion is so wrong Hell has called me to ask if I could ask you to work for them.
They need someone to show to Hollywood celebs and tell them that if they don't take Satans offer, they'll end up like you.

And Hollywood already has really dumb crap like Scientology but even that is less wrong than your opinion.

Good grief.


you have to hit tyrants from behind. The saw guys are only vulnerable in their bellies. Some enemies have shields that you have to pull. You have to trick Dreamrunners in order to hit them. They may have telegraphed attacks but they are more than the punching bags as you have to be properly positioned for some of them and some you just cant hack at it till its dead. As for DMC3, Chess pieces anyone? The most complex enemies they have was blood goyles, the shield guys, and those things that disapear when you face them, all other enemies you just hack at till they are dead even the Fallen.


Extremely huge hitboxes.
Dodges pretty much place you right behind them anyway.
Shield-pulling is so easy it is a crime.
Telegraphed attacks are still so huge it is a crime.

And the DMC3 enemies are still better, not relying on an ASININE method to attack them.

An enemy doing proper swordplay like the DMC1 Blades? Great.
An enemy like the DMC1 Shadows? Great.
The DMC3 enemies were not that good no, but LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than these things which are relying on fake difficulty to at least be a challenge, and even then they provide *NONE*, but only add FRUSTRATION.

Enemies done Wrong.
Some things money can't make. For everything else, there is Ninja Theory. The company to make the worst H&S games in existence.
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#45Werndan101Posted 4/25/2013 4:02:32 PM
Xtreme65 posted...
Werndan101 posted...
You don't know how to use exceed or table hopper, do you?


Yes I do. Dont see what Table Hopper really adds its a like Trickster almost. Exceed is fun but still doesnt make up for Nero's lack of weaponry. Using a single weapon for an entire game is boring.


Good thing Nero has 3 weapons, then. I doubt you actually pulled table hopper off.
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