Lets discuss this game

#1OracleGunnerPosted 5/6/2013 11:59:33 AM
Today we shall speak of the combat in this game.

The combat in DmC is slow, shallow and quite flashy. Not only are the movements of the weapons slow but the dodge is as well. The amount of I-frames per dodge literally make it possible to pass levels without damage without challenge. The only version that is excused of this is the pc version with the turbo mod and 60fps.

Now then the enemy a.i is quite literally the lowest point in combat, if it wasn't for the color coding most battles in SoS and DMD would be finished in 1 minute. The abilities of the main character are also quite unbalanced, DD+overdrive kills 85% of all enemies, even with the patch its still so unbalanced that to get anywhere near a challenging scenario you have to allow the enemies to put you near death even on the highest difficulties.

The weapons themselves aren't any better, while rebellion is perfectly acceptable the overpowered Arbiter and the Aquila will do most of the damage in later playthrough due to the former's immense attack power and the latter's stunlock ability. I doubt that there is anything else since guns are basically useless even the kablooey (a cheap form of DMC4's Lucifer) whose only use is cheap stunlock, is unable to hurt color coded enemies.

Now the game lacks a Lock on. This is a big problem, especially if you want to hit a specific enemy say a witch when she is surrounded by other foes. Taking away lock on and giving the player a sub par auto lock also removes the possibility for more combos and precision in your attacks.

Of course not everything is bad in the combat aspect, since the enemies are so easy most players will not notice the lack of options and the dedicated dodge button is quite useful, although why the use of 2 is beyond me.

Now then anyone want to add anything?

Tomorrow we talk level design.
---
The Unofficial Iron Castle that Smashes Through Mountains of every board in the multiverse.
PM me if you get from where is my sig. People who got it:1
#2syctheweilderPosted 5/6/2013 12:03:33 PM
DmC does nothing to push the core gameplay of Devil May Cry forward.

While it could be said that heavenly sword's stance system grants Devil May Cry a more accessible moveset on paper, the inherent changes actually work to it's disadvantage in practice.

However before delving into these particular failings it must be said that removal of lock-on alone pushes the game several steps backward, with held triggers to switch weapons only making it feel that much more archaic as compared to the previous method of a simple toggle.

Without lock-on, there can no longer be directional inputs, which severely undercuts the amount off possible attacks for each weapon. Stinger and it's derivatives are the only attacks that can be performed in conjunction with a directional input in DmC, and their functionality is greatly diminished thanks to the removal of lock-on.

In fact, the devil bringer stand-in Ophion requires the correct trigger to be held down in conjunction with the square button depending on if the player wishes to pull or be pulled, when before all that was needed from the player was to press the circle button while locked on to their chosen target, and game prioritized each action automatically depending on the size of the target.

One may argue that a trigger must still be held down to achieve this action, but the player no longer has to hassle between triggers in the heat of battle, and also has access to a close quarters grapple attack that is no longer available thanks to the dedicated launch button. In it's place are the options to execute an attack on, or jump off of targeted enemies when input with proper timing.

Furthermore, as the square button is used to execute these techniques, the player can no longer use firearms, and must release the button to be able to use them. While this is just a mild inconvenience, it becomes an issue for weapon switching in general when one takes into account the input delay, which can result in use of an incorrect weapon, which once again is a mild inconvenience, but also becomes an issue when faced a mob that contains certain enemy types which can only be damaged by certain weapons.

The addition of a second attack button has the potential to bolster the moveset, but this is not taken advantage of. the circle button is limited to a single attack on the ground and in the air, all of which are derivative of high time and helm breaker with the exception of aquila, which is less an offensive measure, and more means of disabling opponents.

The final blow is dealt by the removal of styles and style switching. the d-pad is now used to switch firearms while in the neutral stance and alternate weapons while in demon and angel stances, and the circle button is as mentioned previously, the dodge button. An effort has been made to incorporate techniques associated with gunslinger and swordmaster into dante's moveset, such as revenant's fireworks, osiris' prop/shredder, and rebellion's drive. But once again, the lack of lock on and directional inputs makes them incomplete, and Royalguard and trickster are not represented at all.
#3produnerPosted 5/6/2013 12:21:26 PM
Furries.
#45hadowsPosted 5/6/2013 12:23:39 PM
produner posted...
Furries.


Are quite the handful
---
Ill add something here later....
#5TriangleMasherPosted 5/6/2013 12:23:51 PM
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Kawaii
---
Triangle Triangle Triangle Triangle Triangle Triangle Triangle
http://tinyurl.com/cslynkm
#6OracleGunner(Topic Creator)Posted 5/6/2013 12:51:06 PM
produner posted...
Furries.


Love cannons.
---
The Unofficial Iron Castle that Smashes Through Mountains of every board in the multiverse.
PM me if you get from where is my sig. People who got it:1
#7Psychochild27Posted 5/6/2013 1:00:17 PM(edited)

Furthermore, as the square button is used to execute these techniques, the player can no longer use firearms, and must release the button to be able to use them. While this is just a mild inconvenience, it becomes an issue for weapon switching in general when one takes into account the input delay, which can result in use of an incorrect weapon, which once again is a mild inconvenience, but also becomes an issue when faced a mob that contains certain enemy types which can only be damaged by certain weapons.


The worst part of this (Besides the fact that guns are worthless on giant/weapon immune/shielded mobs which makes up nearly half the bestiary of things you end up fighting) is two fold:

1.) There's no reason for these abilities to cut into your Gun Special attack input as the timing for the Pull-Jump is so lax in the first place. This ends up making Kablooey cumbersome to use if you're comboing with other stances and makes the Rainstorms and Fireworks that much less enticing.

2.) If you try to charge a charge shot while you're in a different stance, the charge won't start. You have to go into normal stance, shoot, switch into your stance of choice which the charge -will- carry over and execute upon releasing the button.

It's the most counter-intuitive thing I've seen in a video game since, y'know, all of MGS2.

But once again, the lack of lock on and directional inputs makes them incomplete, and Royalguard and trickster are not represented at all.


The problem people never seemed to grasp when they were all hot to throw Nero under the bus and give Dante a devil bringer weapon when DMC4 came out is that it makes Trickster redundant.

Trickster is represented to with aerial dodges, a directional dodge, the angel glide which goes way too far to look or feel that good and the Angel Pull give Dante that same sort of movement, but everything carries Dante too far to really be used nicely mid combos and without lock-on, combos that try to take advantage of Dante's agility and ability to position himself everywhere becomes unreliable - It's a pain enough to keep Dante on the same target, having him risk putting something else he can lock onto anywhere near the target is a massive liability.

Royal Guard does get shafted. Having universal parries is not an adequate replacement for Royal Guard since parries existed in previous games along side Royal Guard. The feature was just stripped and tossed off to the side.

Stinger and it's derivatives are the only attacks that can be performed in conjunction with a directional input in DmC, and their functionality is greatly diminished thanks to the removal of lock-on.


The input doesn't actually work a third of the time either.


The addition of a second attack button has the potential to bolster the moveset, but this is not taken advantage of. the circle button is limited to a single attack on the ground and in the air, all of which are derivative of high time and helm breaker with the exception of aquila, which is less an offensive measure, and more means of disabling opponents.


What's delicious about this is that even with a second attack button, DMC4 Nero still has more aerial options with moves mapped to a single button thanks to lock on while DmC Dante's limited to two or three because directional inputs aren't viable.

That said, I'd argue Tremor has enough interesting utility to avoid labeling it as derivative of High Time. That thing is derivative of DMC's Drive back when it launched things.

Aquila meanwhile's just derivative of Round Trip. Which really makes Arbiter and Aquila's launch moves derivative of more interesting Rebellion abilities back when Dante didn't need to have his primary weapon's moves spread across three other different weapons because LOL LAUNCH BUTTON.
#8Malus_X6Posted 5/6/2013 1:17:10 PM
From: TriangleMasher | #005
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Kawaii

For your insolence, I shall see you dead.
---
PSN: LordMalus
XBL: LordMalusDCLXVI
#9syctheweilderPosted 5/6/2013 5:35:00 PM
so much for discussion...that post took a long-ass time to prepare too.
#10Some_HoarPosted 5/7/2013 11:47:58 AM
What's delicious about this is that even with a second attack button, DMC4 Nero still has more aerial options with moves mapped to a single button thanks to lock on while DmC Dante's limited to two or three because directional inputs aren't viable.

Bit harsh really, donte has 13 air attacks (count em) and that's before gun specials and the whips. Nero has what, air combo, roulette, helm breaker, snatch and busters, and I suppose you could count charge shots.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more mentions of buy-in because it's just as ridiculous round trip and combined with raze and osiris air combos you can do ridiculous amounts of damage to everything in total safety, which wrecks _everything_ that isn't shielded, red, or a heavy enemy much faster than just swinging arbiter around. Trust me I've tried.

Also saying the trickster abilities are gone is a little harsh, seeing as you get both a long 'safe' dodge in the angel dodge and the damage boost of the demon evade, both of which can be done in midair (and both of which are equally overpowered) as well as the whips and air boost.

Lastly, osiris' standard ground combos are total crap ugh
---
Bald_Money posted...
How many alternate accounts does Some_Hoar have? From the look of things, it's something like 6.