Why do people want a harder game?

#41SiLVeR_420Posted 6/18/2013 5:49:38 PM
cthulhufatagn posted...
SiLVeR_420 posted...
cthulhufatagn posted...
SiLVeR_420 posted...
Rising_shadow posted...
Pretty much. 3 would be much better with a more interesting protagonist but the fact that it's so steeped into the American Revolution story means there's nothing except going with the flow about it anyway.


And don't don't spend nearly half the dang game teaching you how to play.

A tutorial for the ship stuff was fine. But everything else didn't need one. After 4 games in the franchise I think I know how to play.

Don't even need a tutorial for tree climbing. Just say "Hey. You can climb these now." And you're good.


...a 1/3rd of the game is tutorials


Its still teaching you to play all the way into Sequence 5. There's only 12 sequences.


Thanks for proving my point


Still nearly half the game though.
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#42AlexxShadenk777Posted 6/18/2013 7:18:45 PM
Strelok posted...
Alex' hatred for DMC4 is downright ridiculous. Seriously dude, saying that it is easier than DmC just shows you lost ALL capacity of reasonable thinking and just go into full blind bile-puking angermode. DMC4 normal is tougher than DmCs Son of Sparda by FAR

@And other such responses to my post: you need to understand when I'm talking about difficulty, I only compare the highest, hardest mode available since DMC1: Dante Must Die. Anything below doesn't count. HaH doesn't count. BP doesn't count. These modes should never be considered because if you're gauging how hard a game actually is, you go to its highest difficulty setting, not the lowest or medium or useless "everything dies in one hit but you still get 3 free gold orbs!" nonsense. Only "Must Die!" counts.

Furthermore, I've also raised this as an argument against DMC4's "challenge" numerous times: both Nero and Dante are perfectly capable of killing any enemy within seconds, and any boss in about a minute, with minimum amount of skill and timing involved.
Nero has CS3 and DT'd Buster. Dante has Distorted Real Impact. Neither character in DmC has moves with the same level of damage output, and even if you raise Dante's DT as a whole, the point is moot because: a) the gauge drains incredibly fast, b) there's no way to restore it quickly in combat, c) the launching capability does not work on bosses, d) certain enemies won't be affected by it in certain conditions, and all this forces you to use DT very selectively. There's no such problem in DMC4, where EVERY move you perform raises DT, even dashes provided you do them near enemies (no timing required), not to mention taunts.

The ONLY way DmC Dante could ever reach ludicrous levels of damage was through Demon Dodge, but this has been toned down with a smart patch, and even when you do get the damage boost, if fades away and you're forced to time a dodge again. And let's not forget the color-coded enemies which everyone hates and whines about because it actually forces the player to play smarter rather than mash Rebellion Combo A for the forty millionth time. There's some actual strategy involved in this.
Nero is like: CS3 > Snatch > (DT'd) Buster. Is it dead yet? No? Then repeat.
Dante is like: DRI. Oh, are there Angelos in the room? Omen > DRI.

Now I'm going to sit here and wait to see more replies from people who refuse to accept any of my arguments because Alex just hates DMC4 and who gives a crap about justified opinions, WE WANT NERO AND UNCLE DANTE BACK THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!
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PSN: AlexxShadenk777
"DMC1 is the best, DMC4 is the worst. Not changing this signature till DMC1 gets its true sequel." January 17th 2013
#43StrelokPosted 6/18/2013 8:09:52 PM
1: Those moves require player skill. Period. Don't try to deny this.

2: DmCs damage output is disgusting, and you practically take no damage at all

3: Colour coded enemies don't force you to think, they are utterly annoying in that they interrupt your combo, period.

4: Your tactics don't work on DMD. Sorry.

Stop being so blinded by hatred.
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#44RetsuxDPosted 6/18/2013 8:20:32 PM
lul
#455hadowsPosted 6/18/2013 8:26:42 PM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...
Strelok posted...
Alex' hatred for DMC4 is downright ridiculous. Seriously dude, saying that it is easier than DmC just shows you lost ALL capacity of reasonable thinking and just go into full blind bile-puking angermode. DMC4 normal is tougher than DmCs Son of Sparda by FAR

Wah Wah Nero

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#46Edward_R_MurrowPosted 6/18/2013 11:10:40 PM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...
These modes should never be considered because if you're gauging how hard a game actually is, you go to its highest difficulty setting, not the lowest or medium or useless "everything dies in one hit but you still get 3 free gold orbs!" nonsense. Only "Must Die!" counts.


Given that most people will never actually play the highest difficulty in games, and that since DMC1 and NGB practically no developers put a lot of thought into the design of higher/highest difficulty levels...that might not always be the best idea.

Of course it makes sense to compare similar difficulties with one another to get a fairer comparison, but I think the tendency to only look at the "end game" difficulty level leaves a lot out. Games can be challenging before the higher difficulties...that's actually a good thing.

Furthermore, I've also raised this as an argument against DMC4's "challenge" numerous times: both Nero and Dante are perfectly capable of killing any enemy within seconds, and any boss in about a minute, with minimum amount of skill and timing involved.


This isn't a good argument for a few reasons:

-Distortion is most certainly a glitch, not a planned feature. It shouldn't really be brought up in an honest discussion about comparing difficulty. If you include that, then you have to factor in all of DmC's glitches that cheese the game even more.

-You assume perfect knowledge of moves and enemies, which is a huge part of the difficulty factor in solving action games. Figuring out how to best deal with DMC4 enemies and bosses is a lot more challenging than figuring out how to deal with DmC foes, especially the pathetic boss fights.

-Focusing on damage fails to take into account other things like how reflex-intensive certain attacking/defending schemes are. For instance, executing the best strategies against, say, Echidna or Bael requires much more in the way of reflexes than anything in DmC's laughible boss fights. It also ignores the relative danger a player character faces from enemy attacks. You take hardly any damage in DmC...even on the highest difficulty, whereas you'll be losing ~45% of your health to certain attacks in DMC4 DMD.

Nero has CS3 and DT'd Buster. Dante has Distorted Real Impact.


Neither of Nero's tools do as much damage as Trinity Smash (even disregarding Demon Dodge), nor does Nero have the ability to dish out infinite hitstun via Round Trip spam. And neither Nero nor Dante have tons of easy infinite strings that allow you to take down enemies completely free of reprisal.

Distortion is obviously a glitch, making Dante's highest damage moves probably Argument, Just Release, and Just-Charged Gilgamesh moves...all of which are pretty balanced.
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#47AlexxShadenk777Posted 6/19/2013 4:00:20 AM
Edward_R_Murrow posted...
Given that most people will never actually play the highest difficulty in games, and that since DMC1 and NGB practically no developers put a lot of thought into the design of higher/highest difficulty levels...that might not always be the best idea.

Didn't I begin by saying people DON'T want a harder game? That's right. 'Nuff said.
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PSN: AlexxShadenk777
"DMC1 is the best, DMC4 is the worst. Not changing this signature till DMC1 gets its true sequel." January 17th 2013
#48Pimps1678Posted 6/19/2013 5:11:46 AM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...

Furthermore, I've also raised this as an argument against DMC4's "challenge" numerous times: both Nero and Dante are perfectly capable of killing any enemy within seconds, and any boss in about a minute, with minimum amount of skill and timing involved.
Nero has CS3 and DT'd Buster. Dante has Distorted Real Impact. Neither character in DmC has moves with the same level of damage output, and even if you raise Dante's DT as a whole, the point is moot because: a) the gauge drains incredibly fast, b) there's no way to restore it quickly in combat, c) the launching capability does not work on bosses, d) certain enemies won't be affected by it in certain conditions, and all this forces you to use DT very selectively. There's no such problem in DMC4, where EVERY move you perform raises DT, even dashes provided you do them near enemies (no timing required), not to mention taunts.

The ONLY way DmC Dante could ever reach ludicrous levels of damage was through Demon Dodge, but this has been toned down with a smart patch, and even when you do get the damage boost, if fades away and you're forced to time a dodge again. And let's not forget the color-coded enemies which everyone hates and whines about because it actually forces the player to play smarter rather than mash Rebellion Combo A for the forty millionth time. There's some actual strategy involved in this.
Nero is like: CS3 > Snatch > (DT'd) Buster. Is it dead yet? No? Then repeat.
Dante is like: DRI. Oh, are there Angelos in the room? Omen > DRI.

Hello there, but i must be wrong at some point:
- You cant Buster a boss when i didn;t get enough damage,
- Buster is deal less damage than Showdown with any boss. But Showdown take like 5 second charge so it's quite a timing skill to use it.
- in DmC you can stunt the every monster on the screen by just spamming Aquila's move until they die wihout getting any hit.
- In DmC you can jumping around infinite to hit enemy until they die wihout any effort or timing skill, in DMC , you need timing skill to do that.
- Time window for demon doge was a joke to compare with Royal Release or Tabble Hopper.
#49NostalgiaRulesPosted 6/19/2013 12:05:34 PM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...
Strelok posted...
Alex' hatred for DMC4 is downright ridiculous. Seriously dude, saying that it is easier than DmC just shows you lost ALL capacity of reasonable thinking and just go into full blind bile-puking angermode. DMC4 normal is tougher than DmCs Son of Sparda by FAR

@And other such responses to my post: you need to understand when I'm talking about difficulty, I only compare the highest, hardest mode available since DMC1: Dante Must Die. Anything below doesn't count. HaH doesn't count. BP doesn't count. These modes should never be considered because if you're gauging how hard a game actually is, you go to its highest difficulty setting, not the lowest or medium or useless "everything dies in one hit but you still get 3 free gold orbs!" nonsense. Only "Must Die!" counts.

Furthermore, I've also raised this as an argument against DMC4's "challenge" numerous times: both Nero and Dante are perfectly capable of killing any enemy within seconds, and any boss in about a minute, with minimum amount of skill and timing involved.
Nero has CS3 and DT'd Buster. Dante has Distorted Real Impact. Neither character in DmC has moves with the same level of damage output, and even if you raise Dante's DT as a whole, the point is moot because: a) the gauge drains incredibly fast, b) there's no way to restore it quickly in combat, c) the launching capability does not work on bosses, d) certain enemies won't be affected by it in certain conditions, and all this forces you to use DT very selectively. There's no such problem in DMC4, where EVERY move you perform raises DT, even dashes provided you do them near enemies (no timing required), not to mention taunts.

The ONLY way DmC Dante could ever reach ludicrous levels of damage was through Demon Dodge, but this has been toned down with a smart patch, and even when you do get the damage boost, if fades away and you're forced to time a dodge again. And let's not forget the color-coded enemies which everyone hates and whines about because it actually forces the player to play smarter rather than mash Rebellion Combo A for the forty millionth time. There's some actual strategy involved in this.
Nero is like: CS3 > Snatch > (DT'd) Buster. Is it dead yet? No? Then repeat.
Dante is like: DRI. Oh, are there Angelos in the room? Omen > DRI.

Now I'm going to sit here and wait to see more replies from people who refuse to accept any of my arguments because Alex just hates DMC4 and who gives a crap about justified opinions, WE WANT NERO AND UNCLE DANTE BACK THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!


Hmm...perhaps if you posted things that didn't sound so angry and didn't end your post with a sentence expecting the worst from people, you might not get such harsh responses back. As for DMC 4 not being much of a challenge, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. I played DMC 4 on Easy Mode. As you go through the levels more, certain enemies, like Scarecrow Mega, Frost, Mephisto, Bianco Angelo, Cutlass, Assault, Alto Angelo, Faust and Basilisk can't be gotten rid of with just a few taps of a button. Blitz's are by far the toughest, next to Alto Angelo's.
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#50Vault_ZeroPosted 6/19/2013 12:11:29 PM
AlexxShadenk777 posted...
Edward_R_Murrow posted...
Given that most people will never actually play the highest difficulty in games, and that since DMC1 and NGB practically no developers put a lot of thought into the design of higher/highest difficulty levels...that might not always be the best idea.

Didn't I begin by saying people DON'T want a harder game? That's right. 'Nuff said.


In which you are wrong as I want a harder game or harder games in general.
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