My serious thoughts on this game

#61RetsuxDPosted 6/18/2013 2:42:36 PM
SBK91 posted...
Very Hard no upgrade Clones towers over any challenge you'd care to name in DMC without getting overly arbitrary (like clearing the game with just the first slash of Reb Combo 1). It's a fight designed with a very specific solution in mind, and without which it turns into one of the (if not the) hardest challenges in Action. It took the best GoW player (Taz, who's both extremely skilled and tactically superb), six months of testing to clear it years after the game came out.

GKPAIN+ (no upgrades, no extensions, no relics, no magic, Blades only, with General Kratos) Zeus with Barbarian Hammer and PAIN+ Persephone is much more demanding skill wise than anything I've experienced in DMC. PAIN+ Trial of Achilles Wave 1 hasn't been cleared by anyone yet. PAIN+ Translator and Path to Clotho are much harder than any NUR fight in DMC1 or DMC4 (haven't gotten around to 3).

The only thing DMC has is SS/SBing and that's only difficult because you have to do the whole Mission in one go.


That is horribly biased.

Try a NU fresh DMD regular Dante no DT run in DMC1, then, does that seem easy too?

Seriously, how come for GoW you're allowed to use the worst costume, only one weapon and no other special skills but for DMC it tops at SB a NU run?

The Blades are terrible weapons in GoWII and Plume is a mediocre Blade string even on normal. It is perhaps the worst string for damage in the game and isn't even that safe.


But the Plume of Prometheus still manages to provide a large stun window to be able to lock many enemies into a simple loop of Plumes.

And unlike RG, it doesn't stop everything, won't get larger enemies/bosses off your back, isn't in every game, doesn't kill anything without collisions or petrification, and isn't available in some settings.


>it doesn't stop everything
But stops pretty much every conventional attack that does not trigger a QTE.

>doesn't get enemies off you
Neither does RG, you can only disable enemies through a weapon parry, not a RG parry.

>isn't in every game
And RG is?

>doesn't kill anything
And neither does RG if you choose to not use a release.

>isn't available in some setting
I'll give you this, but I'll however note that RG cannot perform a strong release, nor Air Blocks/Parry/Releases without leveling it.

Like Cyclops swings? Zeus's quake? BoO attacks? Siren scream? Hades Minotaur torch slam? Siren/priest pillars? Lahkesis's carpet bombing? How about when you're surrounded by constantly attacking foes who can stunlock you between letting go of block and parrying? Or before you receive it?

The bonus red orbs for combo strings are negligible . If you want lots of orbs, you shatter or QTE. The combo count is a gimmick for casuals.


Most.
Read that part, "most attacks".

Some attacks are obviously better dodged by rolling or jumping, or simply by stunning enemies before they pull it off.

And good to see you admit you can do better with your red orb count while PRESSING CIRCLE TO WIN.
#62RetsuxDPosted 6/18/2013 2:44:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vYJRD2sr8c
#63SBK91Posted 6/18/2013 3:11:14 PM
Try a NU fresh DMD regular Dante no DT run in DMC1, then, does that seem easy too?

I've already done a NU fresh DMD LDK run in DMC1, the only thing no DT would change is Mundus, Nightmare and M1. Besides, I only denoted a vanilla NUR on Very Hard for the Clones soloing anything DMC can throw at it.

Seriously, how come for GoW you're allowed to use the worst costume,

I only denoted the 'bad' costume for one fight (Zeus) with one weapon (BH). General Kratos makes most fights easier.

but for DMC it tops at SB a NU run?

I don't think you can SB a DMC1 NUR. Highest I've seen is S rank No damage.

But the Plume of Prometheus still manages to provide a large stun window to be able to lock many enemies into a simple loop of Plumes.

So does the Grenade Gun, Spiral, and KA, except they do it much, much better and the Plume isn't good at what it does in its own game.

But stops pretty much every conventional attack that does not trigger a QTE.

I already provided a list of many troublesome attacks it doesn't which aren't QTEs.

Neither does RG, you can only disable enemies through a weapon parry, not a RG parry.

Dante isn't screwed when he's surrounded. Kratos is. Release puts Dante on the other side of groups. The Fleece doesn't.

And RG is?

Point taken. Note most of the hardest fights in GoW are not in GoWII, whereas the only really troublesome fight RG isn't present for is Mundus 2.

And neither does RG if you choose to not use a release.

So you pulling the "player is an idiot" card? RG is one of the highest sources of DPS in the game, builds DT crazy fast and almost worth it for guard cancelled Spiral shots/KA alone.

I'll give you this, but I'll however note that RG cannot perform a strong release, nor Air Blocks/Parry/Releases without leveling it.

A 1/3 strength Release is still powerful, fills up 3x faster than a full release, and grants guard cancelling. The Fleece isn't allowed in some settings at all.

Read that part,

How about when you're surrounded by constantly attacking foes who can stunlock you between letting go of block and parrying?

Read that part.

Some attacks are obviously better dodged by rolling or jumping

Just like DMC!

or simply by stunning enemies before they pull it off.

Oh? What's your method for consistently stunning attacking Cyclopi at close range? The elite grunts? Hades Minotaurs? Sirens, Juggs, or Satyrs? Zeus?

And good to see you admit you can do better with your red orb count while PRESSING CIRCLE TO WIN.

How's this different from MASH SHOOT AND STYLE/EVADE TO WIN?

>link

So a group of trash mobs and a novelty approach to an easy fight are supposed to be impressive difficulty wise?
#64Pesmerga255Posted 6/18/2013 3:24:35 PM
*yawns*

You're such a bore, SBK.
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#65produnerPosted 6/18/2013 3:31:41 PM
Get surrounded by enemies, side roll or trickster's invincibility frames aren't sufficient, use a 6 frame parrying move while surrounded by fast enemies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cV0tCphFMr8#t=98s

Using high level stuff with inertia and royal guard while parrying spinning blades and juggling enemies is also easy and isn't comparable to GoW's telegraphed attacks.


Anyway, DMC's enemies that shoot fast projectiles and easily surround you are trivial.
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#66MetalSonicSwordPosted 6/18/2013 3:35:29 PM
atrevino32 posted...
I know theres alot of haters out there who hated this game so much. I played all the original Devil May crys (1-4), and i do think this DmC was different than the original series. But after playing DmC, i dont understand why it gets so much hate, i really liked it alot and do hope they make a DmC 2. At first i didnt like the new look Dante, but as the game went i thought he was pretty badass.

I thought the combat was still good and fun, Dante must die wasn't that hard especially as you learn all the moves and how to defeat the enemies strategy. I liked the story and characters, theres definitely potential for dmc 2. Im glad it had a bloody palace even though it came later.

What threw me off was the whole going to limbo thing and how the environment and colors would change. I kind of didnt like that, i also didnt dig the music too much. I wish it had music like from the first devil may cry, that violin orchestra piano music, i didnt like this screamo/gothic music much. That original devil may cry music gave a badass vibe kind of hard to explain.

Overall i really did like it, i wont say it was better than the originals, im just glad they made a new DmC with fresh start and hopefully get a sequel. Im really looking forward to one, im sure a DmC 2 will be even better.


You have no idea what genre you are talking about
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#67SBK91Posted 6/18/2013 4:13:49 PM
You're such a bore, SBK.

Nothing to contribute, Merga?

Get surrounded by enemies, side roll or trickster's invincibility frames aren't sufficient, use a 6 frame parrying move while surrounded by fast enemies.

Or just stunlock them to death. No need to get fancy.

Using high level stuff with inertia and royal guard while parrying spinning blades and juggling enemies is also easy and isn't comparable to GoW's telegraphed attacks.

Or, shotgun whore them offscreen until their cloaks fall off, then DRI/Darkslayer/whatever until dead. You're comparing messing around to surviving fights. Try that in GoW specialty runs.

Anyway, DMC's enemies that shoot fast projectiles and easily surround you are trivial.

Yep, seeing as they actually stun and you're mobile enough to get away, unlike Kratos who, without magic or Hermes Dash (GoWIII only) is stuck in place.
#68produnerPosted 6/18/2013 4:54:20 PM(edited)
SBK91 posted...


Get surrounded by enemies, side roll or trickster's invincibility frames aren't sufficient, use a 6 frame parrying move while surrounded by fast enemies.

Or just stunlock them to death. No need to get fancy.


Stunlock? While surrounded? You will get immediately hit if you tried to hit one of the mobs and their attacks are fast, the chances of you hitting one of them without taking damage is near impossible. You said that Dante can use royal guard or royal release while being surrounded, which is extremely difficult.

Using high level stuff with inertia and royal guard while parrying spinning blades and juggling enemies is also easy and isn't comparable to GoW's telegraphed attacks.

Or, shotgun whore them offscreen until their cloaks fall off, then DRI/Darkslayer/whatever until dead. You're comparing messing around to surviving fights. Try that in GoW specialty runs.


Shotgun is slow unless you JC and you mentioned special runs and challenges. That is a special air attack run to stay in the air while parrying blades.

Anyway, DMC's enemies that shoot fast projectiles and easily surround you are trivial.

Yep, seeing as they actually stun and you're mobile enough to get away, unlike Kratos who, without magic or Hermes Dash (GoWIII only) is stuck in place.



Kratos' weapons have long range, AOE and easy juggles for some mobs, you can easily attack them from a safe distance and Kratos' dodge has a long range and lot of I-frames. Enemies in DMC are fast and hard hitting on higher difficulties. Even while equipping all of Dante's tools and styles, there is a chance of you getting hit off-screen by a charging angelo or a projectile, getting surrounded is even worse.

As for stunning them, nope, you need DT to stun them quickly, otherwise the highest stunning move is prop, which leaves you open for attacks and nearly impossible to use while surrounded. Speaking of stun, try DMC3 on DMD, the mobs are difficult to stun.

You speak of stun in DMC as it is something trivial and easy to do even when you're surrounded which isn't true. All of that is taking into account all of Dante's tools, special runs are even harder. Higher level mobs are aggressive, mobile and have special requirements to stun them, that is ignoring juggles and keeping on air combos which in some cases requires some of Dante's tools and execution.

Compared to the easy parry, tools that kratos have and telegraphed enemies, DMC is more difficult in term of normal gameplay and specialized runs are either extremely difficult or impossible later in DMC.

Do you want handicaps like the ones you throw around in GoW? Try a royal guard only run of some missions and that specific bloody palace room that retsu linked.
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#69SBK91Posted 6/18/2013 8:43:57 PM
You will get immediately hit if you tried to hit one of the mobs

Weird. The fellow in the video attacked them and didn't get hit.

chances of you hitting one of them without taking damage is near impossible

The video proves otherwise.

You said that Dante can use royal guard or royal release while being surrounded, which is extremely difficult.

No, I said Release puts you on the other side of enemies. It is trivial for Dante to escape being surrounded, whereas for Kratos it comes down to the AI behaving.

Shotgun is slow

To decloak them? No. Not that it matters if they're offscreen.

you mentioned special runs and challenges

Offscreen Shotgun+Darkslayer works great, no upgrades needed.

That is a special air attack run

Can you describe the conditions of this run? Does it apply to the whole game, or just one room? Do we have to put ourselves in harms way? And do you think this comes close to the VH NUR Clones?

Kratos' weapons have long range,

Dante has a class of weapons devoted to ranged combat.

AOE

Attached to weak, long strings. Dante has instant AoE with Inferno, KA, Nevan, etc.

easy juggles for some mobs

Not without grabs (contextual) or the Whips.

you can easily attack them from a safe distance

Dante does it safer and kills faster.

Kratos' dodge

Only goes in four directions, the back and side variations are slower, and you have no control over it once initiated. Dante's jump is more mobile, controllable, better at getting you out of harm's way, and cancels some attacks for ridiculous DPS. Oh, and you can jump over things in front of you.

lot of I-frames

Like side-rolls, jumps, Trickster, Quicksilver, Vortex and Ice Age?

Enemies in DMC are fast and hard hitting on higher difficulties.

GoW's are badly designed. Point GoW.

there is a chance of you getting hit off-screen by a charging angelo or a projectile

Do you even Keres Wraith?

getting surrounded is even worse.

Air Hike. Problem solved.
#70SBK91Posted 6/18/2013 8:45:16 PM
you need DT to stun them quickly, otherwise the highest stunning move is prop, which leaves you open for attacks and nearly impossible to use while surrounded.

This statement makes me greatly question your knowledge of DMC. Slash cancelling, Kick-13 spam, Shotgun twitching, Grenade Rolling, Grenade->Stinger, Inferno, Spiral, KA, Crazy Combos, any jump cancelled attack with special properties, Pin Up spam, and in many cases combo strings and lunge attacks shuts down enemies piecemeal. This can be further augmented by Summoned Swords, DT, Doppelganger and Quicksilver. Prop is extremely quick and launches DTed Angelo Altos consistently.

Speaking of stun, try DMC3 on DMD, the mobs are difficult to stun.

And GoW's are harder in many cases.

You speak of stun in DMC as it is something trivial and easy to do even when you're surrounded which isn't true.

Sure it is. Don't get surrounded.

All of that is taking into account all of Dante's tools, special runs are even harder.

I've sampled DMC's specialty runs, and of those I've tried GoW's are far more difficult. The only time you'd get thirty minute fights in DMC is if you're using Force Edge. Maybe.

Higher level mobs are aggressive, mobile and have special requirements to stun them,

Just like GoW.

that is ignoring juggles

Juggling DTed enemies is just as easy as unDTed enemies.

keeping on air combos

What's with the obsession with air combos? Ground requires less execution and often hits more enemies.

Compared to the easy parry,

Which isn't universal and no more difficult than Dante's jumps.

telegraphed enemies,

Which can put you into situations where damage can't be avoided.

DMC is more difficult in term of normal gameplay

In terms of allowing you to use everything but post game costumes/possessions? No. GoW is harder unrestricted.

specialized runs are either extremely difficult

And still below GoW.

or impossible later in DMC.

The only impossible portions of DMC is Time Ranks and getting Orbs in DMC4 without purchasing upgrades for SS runs. Anything lower and it's doable.

Do you want handicaps like the ones you throw around in GoW?

Give it a shot.

Try a royal guard only run

Taunt+DTE. 2easy