My serious thoughts on this game

#71produnerPosted 6/18/2013 9:07:14 PM(edited)
SBK you keep bringing up handicaps then you bring up lot of Dante's tools and upgraded. As people pointed out, Kratos' tools are too good and you resorted to "specialized runs". The latter can have more than type of run and no upgrade is one of them.

That video is made by his1nightmare, one of the best -got hit if you noticed- and that took him months to do it "properly".

As for Dante doing things better than Kratos, is just as you said, GoW's enemies are badly designed and lack the tools that DMC's enemies have.


Stunning enemies on DMD and higher mobs in nearly all difficulties requires lot of hits or other stunning moves. Prop isn't as fast as you display it, try to hit a frost face-on, you will get hit if he attacks with his melee attack and if other frosts are nearby, you will get hit by projectiles.

Enemies in DMD surround you fast and without upgrades like charge shots. enemy step , style upgrades....etc. you will struggle in removing cloaks, shields, stunning DTed enemies, frosts and dodging projectiles.



Anyway, no upgrade runs in DMC are really risky due to enemy design, without certain tools and upgrades, you will struggle to stun and hit enemies safely without getting hit by a projectile, hit during recovery like prop in DMC4 and getting hit when rolling due to active frames of enemy attacks.
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#72RetsuxDPosted 6/18/2013 10:34:11 PM(edited)
Consider the following:
In a no-upgrade run of DMC4, which seems to be the one you're discussing, you have to deal with:
Nero:
Snatch only extends in a short area.
Nero is stuck with only 2 combos, none of which are for crowd control.
DT runs out fast due to no Trigger Heart.
Nero lacks his DT finishers.
Has no Chargeshots, which would make a NUR hit the biggest block with the Blitz in DMD 4, because you also have no DT to speed up the process with Summoned Swords.
Has no Split, Streak, and most important, Roulette Spin, Air Hike nor Enemy Step, gg at Sanctus fights.
Has no Exceed LV2 or 3, which leaves you with a crippled damage output.
No Speed, crappier time ranks.
No Table Hopper, have to deal with recovery from dodge rolls.

Dante:
Everything that applies to Nero that can also be applied to Dante.
No Chargeshots unless DT'd, no air hike, no enemy step, Mephistos and Fausts sure are fun to fight.
Can only perform Blocks and Releases while on the ground.
Has no directional inputs from no weapons, except High Time and Ecstasy, Swordmaster will only provide you with Prop&Shredder, Air Rave, Discipline and Shock/Shocking, and I think maybe Beast Uppercut too, but not Rising Dragon/Divine Dragon, also no Real Impact.
Which brings another issue, Distortion. What can you use it with? Charged Gilgamesh strikes, obviously, but to leave yourself open for that long when you don't have all your tools to dodge stuff?
Gunslinger provides only the missile battery(I think), Honeycomb Fire, Twosome Time, Rainstorm and a ground-only Fireworks, Rainstorm sounds neat to have, but how do you control it without Sky Star and no multiple jumps?
Trickster only provides a Dash and that's it.

On top of this, you have only 3 DT runes and like 6(may be wrong) health sections.

Yeah, I wouldn't count a NUR DMD(because SBK was talking of VH mode anyway) as easy stuff.

But does anyone have any consider_the_following.jpg to complement this post?
#73RetsuxDPosted 6/19/2013 12:03:55 AM(edited)
I was wrong my last post, Air Rave and Honeycomb Fire must be bought as a Sword Master upgrade, but you do not have to buy Draw and Straight.
#74cthulhufatagnPosted 6/19/2013 3:33:49 AM
Is Starkillers alt still suggesting that the protecting the family bit in GOW1 is hard? LOL easy part of the game us easy. What a casual
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#75SBK91Posted 6/19/2013 6:55:47 AM(edited)
SBK you keep bringing up handicaps then you bring up lot of Dante's tools and upgraded.

Handicapped or not, Dante has it easier.

Kratos' tools are too good

Dante's are better.

you resorted to "specialized runs".

And GoW's are more difficult.

GoW's enemies are badly designed and lack the tools that DMC's enemies have.

You don't seem to understand what badly designed means. Many cannot be stunned, have auto evades or counterattacks, one hit kills (even at full health), and offscreen, unblockable stunlocking attacks.

Stunning enemies on DMD and higher mobs in nearly all difficulties requires lot of hits or other stunning moves.

And is easier than most of GoW. Dante can throw out attacks faster and has more attacks with special properties.

Prop isn't as fast as you display it,

It's a fraction of a second slower than Hightime.

try to hit a frost face-on,

Frosts and Blitzes are the only difficult enemies in DMC4, and Frosts are only an issue for Dante due to their lack of stuns. Nero can grab whore them to death, and Dante can Shotgun whore offscreen. Frosts have nothing on GoW:A Sirens.

you will get hit if he attacks with his melee attack and if other frosts are nearby,

Not if you throw the first Frost at the second.

you will get hit by projectiles.

Not if you're offscreen.

Enemies in DMD surround you fast

And are trivial to get away from.

enemy step

Only in DMC4.

you will struggle in removing cloaks,

You're vastly underestimating the base power of the guns and forget that as long as they're offscreen, they cannot attack.

shields

The buster's shield removing capabilities are unaffected by upgrades.

stunning DTed enemies,

Trivial.

frosts

Only as Dante (who only has to fight four).

Anyway, no upgrade runs in DMC are really risky due to enemy design

For someone who hasn't done a NUR, you sure like telling someone who has what it's like.

without certain tools and upgrades, you will struggle to stun

No, you won't. Buster, Darkslayer and the Shotgun are all you need to keep everything under control.

hit enemies safely without getting hit by a projectile

Where are all these projectiles coming from? Nothing shoots at you from offscreen.

hit during recovery like prop in DMC4

>Prop
>recovery

Choose one. Only one.

getting hit when rolling

Who rolls? Jumping and Trickster Dash are much better.

Snatch only extends in a short area.

It still grabs enemies from the air and ignores super armor. That's all it needs.
#76SBK91Posted 6/19/2013 6:53:44 AM
Nero is stuck with only 2 combos

Which are just as strong without upgrades as they are with. Kratos doesn't just lose attacks, his are 30-75% weaker.

DT runs out fast due to no Trigger Heart.

Kratos doesn't get RotG at all in GoW1 NUR and above.

which would make a NUR hit the biggest block with the Blitz in DMD 4,

First Blitz can be stripped with the Gyro Blade. Second is a minute and a half of running around in circles spamming shots, or use a Holy Water and strip it instantly.

gg at Sanctus fights.

What difference does any of that make? Sanctus's shield goes down in two cycles, he's stunned in one, and four DTed grabs kills him.

which leaves you with a crippled damage output.

Buster isn't affected by upgrades. Every normal enemy can be Bustered. Do the math.

No Speed, crappier time ranks.

What does time ranks have to do with anything?

No Table Hopper, have to deal with recovery from dodge rolls.

Why are we rolling again?

Everything that applies to Nero that can also be applied to Dante.

Dante destroys Blitz's shields easily and still has his strongest attack without upgrades.

Mephistos and Fausts sure are fun to fight.

Offscreen shotgun whoring takes their shields down with impunity. Darkslayer one cycles Mephistos, Gilgamesh JF attacks Fausts.

Can only perform Blocks and Releases while on the ground.

Or not bother with them at all.

Has no directional inputs from no weapons, except High Time and Ecstasy

And all of Darkslayer's attacks.

Prop&Shredder,

Which trivializes Angelos.

also no Real Impact.

Instead, you get the stronger Full Steam.

What can you use it with? Charged Gilgamesh strikes, obviously, but to leave yourself open for that long when you don't have all your tools to dodge stuff?

Is all too easy. Prop to DTed Lv 2 Full Steam one shots Biancos and weaker foes (no Distortion required). One Distorted Full Steam takes out over half of Dagon's health, most other bosses take 20-25%.

Rainstorm sounds neat to have, but how do you control it without Sky Star and no multiple jumps?

You don't bother with it.

Trickster only provides a Dash and that's it.

Which is already better than rolling. And I like how you ignore Darkslayer, which retains all its attacks without upgrades, builds DT stupid fast and whose Combo DPS is only a bit bellow Pin Up spam.

Yeah, I wouldn't count a NUR DMD(because SBK was talking of VH mode anyway) as easy stuff.

It's easier than some of GoW's NUR (doesn't register to the Clones), let alone PAIN.

Consider for a GoWII NUR:
-The Blade's lack their best string.
-Your weapons are 1/3 as strong (1/2 in the case of the Spear's Piercing Shards).
-You have halved magic that isn't MP efficient enough to be relied on, especially for petrification.
-You don't start the game with all your tools.
-Unlike the Buster, not every enemy can be grabbed at any point.
-You can't Item spam your way through the game.

LOL easy part of the game us easy.

Try it without upgrades. See what happens.
#77RetsuxDPosted 6/21/2013 8:48:22 AM
I didn't mention Darkslayer because it's obvious it's not nerfed in a NUR, so why should I bring it up when discussing the limitations presented in a NUR?

Plus, you only get to use DS in the Savior fight, so it's not like you enjoy it for a long time.
#78SBK91Posted 6/21/2013 6:52:18 PM
Plus, you only get to use DS in the Savior fight, so it's not like you enjoy it for a long time.

There is no option to start a New Game on DMD in DMC4. You start a DMD NUR with all your equipment.
#79Psychochild27Posted 6/21/2013 7:05:07 PM(edited)
SBK91 posted...
Plus, you only get to use DS in the Savior fight, so it's not like you enjoy it for a long time.

There is no option to start a New Game on DMD in DMC4. You start a DMD NUR with all your equipment.


You can't. People with the PC release and a trainer meanwhile it's no problem. I've got multiple saves with all difficulties and missions unlocked along with Dante equipped with various loadouts (No Pandora, Gilgamesh or Lucifer as I see fit for when I feel too lazy to deal with triple-switching).