Why did the press piss all over DMC4 and yet...

#51SBK91Posted 6/26/2013 3:12:10 PM
And after M17 in DMC4 Dante fights a new boss as well.

Which constitutes an entire level and is a terrible fight.

Man, that handful of new rooms makes these levels totally not a retread, right?

Yeah, mixing up the order you go through rooms with new ones interspersed and couple new bosses is just as bad as going through a greater number of missions (which you've already backtracked through) with the exact same environments and fighting the same bosses.
#52rice_noodlesPosted 6/26/2013 3:30:41 PM
Guys. Don't forget that even counting just Nero's level, he has to do quite a bit of retreading himself.
#53_Uwye_Posted 6/27/2013 12:52:59 AM(edited)
SBK91 posted...
Which constitutes an entire level and is a terrible fight.


Doppelganger is a terrible, gimmicky fight.

Yeah, mixing up the order you go through rooms with new ones interspersed and couple new bosses is just as bad as going through a greater number of missions (which you've already backtracked through) with the exact same environments and fighting the same bosses.


I'm glad we agree. But I have to correct you, the number of retreaded missions in DMC4 is the same and you already backtracked the levels in DMC3 too.
#54Ether101Posted 6/27/2013 12:31:13 AM
I feel that the levels themselves don't really work on a logical level. Does anyone else feel that the levels were just pasted together form what they had finished when the production time was cut in half?
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#55Psychochild27Posted 6/27/2013 5:23:54 AM(edited)
rice_noodles posted...
Guys. Don't forget that even counting just Nero's level, he has to do quite a bit of retreading himself.


The original argument that spurred this discussion gave DMC3 a pass because it was "RE Style backtracking" which there was KINDA SORTA BACKTRACKING but it was validated somehow because you were looking for items to open up new paths which in turn gradually opened up other areas of the Tenen-ni-gru. Under that definition, Nero doesn't have any straight traveling the missions in reverse in the vein of missions 12/14/15/17.

Which is compensated for by the infinite DT and one of the most chaotic fights in the game. It's a great beatdown mission a la M2.


Following that logic, all of Dante's content in DMC4 is compensated by the fact you're Dante which gives everything a free pass because man, it's Dante! He's a million times better than infinite DT!

You sure you don't want to reconsider your stance there? If one thing is compensated in full by a single minor game mechanic, then Dante being a playable character makes everything he touches immune to criticism on merit of his entire design being a Hell of a lot more interesting than losing DTEs/Mini Fluxes for an entire stage.

Uwe posted...

Then, what about...


Hell's Highway is in M13 (Albeit locked behind a gate), the Upper Subterranian Garden/Subterria Lock is from mission 9. And if you want to get technical, the Forbidden Land: Front is the area Dante crashes down in inside Leviathan, though I don't think you get to run around in there prior to that moment, so I'll give it a pass.

So in that entire chunk of content that gives you two elevators and the Sun and Moon Chamber. Across 3 missions. All of which serve solely as a centralized hub for a level or context to explain Dante's rapid ascent back up through the tower.

I feel that the levels themselves don't really work on a logical level. Does anyone else feel that the levels were just pasted together form what they had finished when the production time was cut in half?


Not really? I mean I get what you're getting at with the jungle, though that struck me as more just an underdeveloped plot point of the kind of effects Hellgates can have on the region (Dante even utters as such at one point before vanishing in M7) that may have gotten explored further if Dante's content wasn't scaled back.
#56SBK91Posted 6/27/2013 7:49:03 AM
Doppelganger is a terrible, gimmicky fight.

And still manages to be better than the Savior. And you actually get something for completing it.

the number of retreaded missions in DMC4 is the same

Nero retreads in most of his Missions already. I doubt there are an equal number of retreading missions, but I couldn't make a list of what rooms you visit in what mission.

you already backtracked the levels in DMC3 too.

Not to the same extent.

all of Dante's content in DMC4 is compensated by the fact you're Dante which gives everything a free pass because man, it's Dante!

So you're saying DMC4's M12-17 is the equivalent of a gimmick that lasts less than one mission in DMC3?

By the way, where's Dante's infinite DT in M15 of DMC4?

If one thing is compensated in full by a single minor game mechanic,

The mechanic justifies the health drain. It puts a new spin on a couple rooms you revisit in an isolated backtracking instance. M15 of DMC4 does the same, except it doesn't compensate you for the health loss with DT, doesn't change room order at all, and doesn't offer a new boss.

then Dante being a playable character makes everything he touches immune to criticism

M12 has a short backtracking section that mixes things up with a neat gimmick. All of Dante's missions in DMC4 are visiting the same areas in the same order with botched gimmicks and terrible checkpoints.

As far as being a playable character goes, DMC3 Dante has more (better) options and is more fluid than his DMC4 counterpart. And you get him the whole game! So that would make DMC3 immune to criticism as well, right?

So in that entire chunk of content that gives you two elevators and the Sun and Moon Chamber.

That still mixes things up to a greater extent than DMC4.
#57Psychochild27Posted 6/27/2013 9:51:41 AM(edited)
So you're saying DMC4's M12-17 is the equivalent of a gimmick that lasts less than one mission in DMC3?

No, I'm saying your excuse to justify M12 is stupid. I was hoping the obvious sarcasm would've been enough to tip you off.
#58DevilTriggerSSS(Topic Creator)Posted 6/27/2013 4:28:56 PM
Guys. Obviously DMC3 and 4 are amazing.

DmC is the game that sucks.

You're getting off track here.
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#59syctheweilderPosted 6/27/2013 4:32:21 PM
ITT: people splitting hairs
#60SBK91Posted 6/27/2013 4:50:59 PM
No, I'm saying your excuse to justify M12 is stupid.

And believing DMC3's backtracking to be as bad as 4's is equally ridiculous.