Oh dang, I think this game might actually be genius

#1DullahansXMarkPosted 10/24/2013 4:32:43 PM
Okay, so before I begin I just want to establish that I am, in fact, an anti. I dislike this game very much, and I think you all should probably know that by now, given how much I've said on here.

Now that we have the "lolproll" disclaimer out of the way, let's begin.

Mundus.

Let's carefully examine his character vs. Dante's (I'm gonna avoid calling him Donte for once).

Before he came along, the human world was in chaos. He brought order, structure, and prosperity. In return, he wanted total subjugation. He was never out to kill anyone (unless they stood in his way). He just wanted to rule the world. That doesn't necessarily mean micromanage everyone's lives or anything like that, it just means, he writes the laws. Like it or not, all of you already live in a system like that.

Vergil mentions that Lilith is "one of his whores". However, we never actually SEE any of the others, which might be reason enough to believe that Lilith is the ONLY one.

On that same note, take a look at Lilith. When we think of a rich dude's mistress, we usually think hot, sexy, blond 18-year-old supermodel just out of high school. Lilith? She be old. She be VERY old. (though she IS blond for a while) Which goes to show that Mundus probably likes her for more than just the sex. It's very probable that he might even love her. Mundus is a family man.

When Lilith and Mundus' child are killed, Mundus is stricken with grief. This also shows that he probably cared about Lilith beyond a physical level. He DEFINITELY cared about the child a lot. Enough to try and kill Dante as brutally as he could, discarding all abandon and ultimately leaving himself vulnerable to avenge his loved ones.

Now let's look at Dante.

Right from the very first scene of the game, we can see he's a heavy drinker and, quite frankly, just very sleazy. I mean, take a stripper home and bang her? Alright, I guess. Not my cup of tea, but hey. Take TWO strippers home and bang them? No. You're a sleazebag.

Then there's other details about him, namely that he talks like a punk, dresses very dirty... stuff like that.

Later in the game, he goads Mundus into a fight by spitting on the memory of his lost loved ones. I don't know about any of you, but if I were in a situation where I had to goad a guy into a fight in order to save the world, that's now how i would have done it. To me, that's just going too far.

The end result? The world's economy is in total shambles. There's chaos all around. And now demons are loose and attacking everyone in the human world with the intent to wipe out the human race. So many bad things going on at once, and Dante is HAPPY with this. Granted, most of this was Vergil's idea, but Dante happily played a part in all of this.

So now we're in an awkward place. Why does the game put Dante in a sympathetic spotlight when he's practically evil? Why does the game vilify Mundus when, at the end of the day, he's actually a pretty decent guy, a family man at the very least?

Remember the game's tag line?

"See the truth behind the lies."

Of course, one of the things about this game is that demons operate behind the veil of Limbo and that the humans are blind to all of this. So that IS sorta what that means.

But what it REALLY means, is: the game's tricking you, just as the demons tricked the humans. Dante isn't the good guy. The game doesn't even PRETEND he's the good guy. The true good guy in all of this is Mundus, but because you were fooled by all of the anti-Mundus propaganda you fell for it. THAT'S the truth behind the lies.

It's a meta lesson to never take anything at face value. Always look for the other side to every story lest you wallow in ignorance your whole life. Never assume something is fact just because someone says it is. That's what this game was all about.


... am I reaching, or is this pretty spot-on?
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#2DullahansXMark(Topic Creator)Posted 10/24/2013 4:33:33 PM
Sorry if it seems a bit rushed at the end there, but I was running out of text.
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#3DMANSLANDPosted 10/24/2013 4:50:19 PM
You know what... thanks to you I actually think the story is very good now. I'm not joking, before I thought the story was terrible but you actually opened my eyes. Requested sticky
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#4Phantom_Opera_GPosted 10/24/2013 4:54:47 PM
Seems fairly legit.

I thought the main purpose of the hero is to leave the world in a better place than how they found it, however big or small a difference that maybe, but this? I feel hard pressed to think of story in any media, literature, tv, film and theatre that has the hero ****ing up the world worse than the villain.... aside maybe Versus. Though the difference being we find out in the ending where the world is in a similar state to DmC's the villain in Versus as the lesser of two evils

I should have been on your side
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#5DullahansXMark(Topic Creator)Posted 10/24/2013 4:57:03 PM
DMANSLAND posted...
You know what... thanks to you I actually think the story is very good now. I'm not joking, before I thought the story was terrible but you actually opened my eyes. Requested sticky


Thank you. I used to think so too, but I was sitting and thinking about how the game could vilify Mundus and put Dante in a moral spotlight when it's so obvious who's the good guy and who's the bad guy.

And then I came upon this. Now, maybe it's all just a coincidence (and that Tameem really IS a terrible writer), but if I'm right... I gotta hand it to him, it's a job well done.
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#6LordKaizerPosted 10/24/2013 4:57:53 PM
i knew all that since i started playing this crap but it still a garbage story with garbage characters and a turd graphics and a turd gameplay.
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#7StrelokPosted 10/24/2013 4:58:56 PM
I like the theory, but I don't think it was intentional, it'd be too deep for Tameem.
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#8DullahansXMark(Topic Creator)Posted 10/24/2013 5:13:51 PM(edited)
Strelok posted...
I like the theory, but I don't think it was intentional, it'd be too deep for Tameem.


Very likely.

But it also ties into how this game was supposedly a "social commentary". A lot of people these days will believe anything anyone tells them, especially if it's from an authority figure.

Something interesting is that a lot of the stuff against Justin Bieber is actually a bunch of lies that no one really bothers to question. Like, with him spitting on fans from a balcony. That first picture was just him spitting off a balcony. Something that people do. The second picture was a photo of his fans taken from HIS Facebook profile (with him saying he has the best fans ever, by the way). The media took those two pictures and put them together to vilify the kid.

Now, I don't want anyone thinking I'm a Justin Bieber fan or anything, but that's a terrible thing to do to someone. And I know that's a pop culture example rather than a political one, but it's the first one off the top of my head. Not to mention, some people want him DEAD because he's a complete jerk. Problem is, he ISN'T.

This happens in modern society, and I'm glad that SOMETHING (even if it's a terrible game) in the mainstream is trying to bring this point to light, even if most people won't get it, and even if it was unintended.

Edit: here's a source of evidence for what I mentioned:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/justin-bieber-spit-fans-balcony-rep-article-1.1412672

Edit #2: Just read the article properly and it said Instagram, not Facebook. My point still stands XD
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#9ZeroX91Posted 10/24/2013 5:14:53 PM
Inb4 Shatter and the like...

Based on the quality of the writing in there previous games I kinda doubt it, but even then it's not that original (assuming in a hypothetical sequel he realizes he dun goofed) Human Revolution did it, hell it was a trope when A Christmas Carol did it.
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#10HellVGuardPosted 10/24/2013 5:18:58 PM
As strelok has said, too deep for tamim.
Since I played the game I had the same thought about mundus being the good guy and dante being the jerk he is. The story is fine from that point of view. However, its the way it was delivered with such dull characters and plotholes. And everything dante did was foloowed by a "why how?!" even his rushed battle with vergil was actually him being simplistic and thick headed, he didnt even bother to listen to the plan. Getting rid of mundus was half the plan and getting rid of the remaining demons under their (not vergil alone) rule was the rest of vergil's plan. Peace and order couldve been establoshed much sooner. But that didnt sit well with dante so he left the world in shambles while sending his brother on a journey to become the next demon king. He seemed to care more about revenge than saving the world. Wouldnt want to live in a world with such a character as a hero.