You know, nDante losing his humanity makes a lot of sense now... (spoilers)

#11bigdom93Posted 12/8/2013 10:45:10 AM
Kyrylo posted...
Any Ideas why Vergil dont know how to go to Limbo if HE was the one who learned it to Kat. Also: why Kat was useful, when Vergil can do everything she can, since he was her teacher.


didn't they say that Yamato could cut through dimensions, or something like that in this game. the fact that they need kat to travel between dimensions kinda defeats the main benefit of being a nephelim.(which they said themselves in the game) and kinda makes nephelim a total non factor, to demons if they just left them alone
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#12shatterstarPosted 12/8/2013 11:17:07 AM
Kyrylo posted...
Any Ideas why Vergil dont know how to go to Limbo if HE was the one who learned it to Kat. Also: why Kat was useful, when Vergil can do everything she can, since he was her teacher.


Because he knew that Mundus doesn't know of his existence. So it's best to remain unseen.

That's why he needed Dante and taught Kat about demonology, to help Dante.

This was his plan all along.
#13KyryloPosted 12/8/2013 1:03:58 PM
shatterstar posted...
Kyrylo posted...
Any Ideas why Vergil dont know how to go to Limbo if HE was the one who learned it to Kat. Also: why Kat was useful, when Vergil can do everything she can, since he was her teacher.


Because he knew that Mundus doesn't know of his existence. So it's best to remain unseen.

That's why he needed Dante and taught Kat about demonology, to help Dante.

This was his plan all along.


k, asume i buy it, so 1) in the end he could have cordinate actions without Kat 2) he could have let Dante finish spec ops that attacked headquarters. Dante should have known it and he could confront Vergil about it....yet he says nothing. AKA he could have save Kat without a problem. 3) Also he dont even need Kat in 90%, since for example in family manor it would be more logical to not to bring her along.
#14ufara(Topic Creator)Posted 12/8/2013 8:51:45 PM
I'm surprised you guys didn't want to correct the mistakes in his first post guys.

That's something that could have really gotten him going.
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#15DullahansXMarkPosted 12/8/2013 11:29:35 PM
shatterstar posted...
Because Vergil didn't care about humanity at all. The whole reason behind his motives, were greed and power.


What a load of bull. And you go around saying others should actually play the game before judging it. What about you?

"Humans are frail. They need our protection." --Vergil

How does that translate to "I don't care about the humans at all."

Why would he blatantly lie to his brother about his goals at that point? Because when he said "The path is clear for us to rule", there's a pretty strong implication that he wanted to rule the humans alongside his brother. There'd be absolutely no purpose in an ulterior motive at that point. If he wanted to stab his brother in the back and take all the power for himself, he had plenty of opportunities right before he revealed his intentions.

Did he want power? Yes. Did he care about the humans? Yes.

Wanna be humiliated in front of everyone again? Keep talking.
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#16shatterstarPosted 12/9/2013 5:31:48 AM
DullahansXMark posted...

What a load of bull. And you go around saying others should actually play the game before judging it. What about...you?

"Humans are frail. They need our protection." --Vergil

How does that translate to "I don't care about the humans at all."


His actions and motives mate.

He only cared about obtaining absolute power. That was his whole motivation. Humanities freedom wasn't.

Put your favoritism for Vergil aside mate. And just focus on the events that took place in the game and use common sense.

Ninja Theory completely spelled it out for you, complete with full on handholding mate.

I don't know how in hell that obvious conclusion/outcome, went completely over your head.

(Vergil's actions)

#1: How he was willing to let Kat die. Because her life was irrelevant to him.

#2: His conversation with Dante in the elevator. He was worried that Dante was starting to believe in them. See them as equals.

#3: Vergil never denied Dante's claims about him, during the argument. Why? Because they were all true.

#4: He referred to humans as his subjects. So I don't know about you mate. But if someone referred to me as their subject. I would kick his or her ass.

Because you're basically telling me that Im beneath you, irrelevant, inferior, your slave.

Why would he blatantly lie to his brother about his goals at that point?


Because if Vergil would've told Dante that his plan was to take Mundus place and rule the world, do you think Kat and Dante would've helped him...lol.

So he revealed his true intentions after the fact.

Use your God given common sense mate.

I'm sorry you didn't get it .
#17OracleGunnerPosted 12/9/2013 5:46:08 AM
shatterstar posted...
DullahansXMark posted...

What a load of bull. And you go around saying others should actually play the game before judging it. What about...you?

"Humans are frail. They need our protection." --Vergil

How does that translate to "I don't care about the humans at all."


His actions and motives mate.

He only cared about obtaining absolute power. That was his whole motivation. Humanities freedom wasn't.

Put your favoritism for Vergil aside mate. And just focus on the events that took place in the game and use common sense.

Ninja Theory completely spelled it out for you, complete with full on handholding mate.

I don't know how in hell that obvious conclusion/outcome, went completely over your head.

(Vergil's actions)

#1: How he was willing to let Kat die. Because her life was irrelevant to him.

#2: His conversation with Dante in the elevator. He was worried that Dante was starting to believe in them. See them as equals.

#3: Vergil never denied Dante's claims about him, during the argument. Why? Because they were all true.

#4: He referred to humans as his subjects. So I don't know about you mate. But if someone referred to me as their subject. I would kick his or her ass.

Because you're basically telling me that Im beneath you, irrelevant, inferior, your slave.

Why would he blatantly lie to his brother about his goals at that point?


Because if Vergil would've told Dante that his plan was to take Mundus place and rule the world, do you think Kat and Dante would've helped him...lol.

So he revealed his true intentions after the fact.

Use your God given common sense mate.

I'm sorry you didn't get it .


Well that is a lot of fanfiction Shatter.
1. Not really, she had been captured and he decided to kill his feelings to improve humanity's chance at survival. It's called sacrifice, mate. Also in the prequel comic he does show that he does love her.
2. That is pure speculation mate. He was worried for his brother getting distracted and killed.
3. Or he was shocked that his brother would accuse him of something so base and foolish.
4. You are a subject. To be precise from a pure scientific perspective and even an academic one you are a subject, nothing else.
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#18DullahansXMarkPosted 12/9/2013 12:25:52 PM(edited)
shatterstar posted...
He only cared about obtaining absolute power. That was his whole motivation. Humanities freedom wasn't.


Umm... you know you can be "free" while still having a king, right? Vergil only ever said that he wanted power. He never said, or even implied, anything you're mentioning. In fact, he states the opposite.

If he wanted "absolute" power, as you say, he wouldn't have asked Dante to rule with him.

Put your favoritism for Vergil aside mate. And just focus on the events that took place in the game and use common sense.


Okay, Vergil is not, in either continuity, my favorite character. He's my second-favorite in both, but Dante is my favorite in the original canon, and Mundus (due to everyone else being irredeemably terrible people) is my favorite in this one.

#1: How he was willing to let Kat die. Because her life was irrelevant to him.

#2: His conversation with Dante in the elevator. He was worried that Dante was starting to believe in them. See them as equals.

#3: Vergil never denied Dante's claims about him, during the argument. Why? Because they were all true.


#1: As OracleGunner said, it was cutting off the arm to save the rest of the body from infection. If he had gone and tried to save her, he could have been killed. Which would only leave Dante, who--let's face it--needs someone telling him what to do in order to function. And assuming he DID know what to do, he'd most likely fail because, again, he'd be alone. Assuming he didn't just go with Vergil to save Kat and failed with him.

Vergil actually cares deeply about Kat, as (again) OracleGunner said. That wasn't an easy choice for him to make.

#2: Vergil's a very practical person. On a practical level, no, humans are not equal to nephilim. Kinda makes itself obvious when demons are slaying humans left and right at the end of the game.

I won't deny that Vergil was a bit of a jerk about that, though.

#3: Or maybe because Dante kept yelling louder and louder, making it hard to interrupt him. That, and he was probably dumbfounded at Dante's baseless accusations. People tend to be rather shocked when people blatantly lie about and misinterpret them.

#4: He referred to humans as his subjects. So I don't know about you mate. But if someone referred to me as their subject. I would kick his or her ass.

Because you're basically telling me that Im beneath you, irrelevant, inferior, your slave.


Plot twist: YOU ARE A SUBJECT!!! If you live in a country that isn't an anarchist state (and is there even a country that is, anymore?), you are a subject. Plain and simple.

And I'm pretty sure Vergil would kill you instantly.

Because if Vergil would've told Dante that his plan was to take Mundus place and rule the world, do you think Kat and Dante would've helped him...lol.

So he revealed his true intentions after the fact.

Use your God given common sense mate.


I meant after the fact, smartass. He revealed his entire plan AFTER "the path was clear for him to rule". Why would he hide details THEN? He wouldn't. At that point, he was being completely open with Dante. There'd be no use in hiding details at that point. At that point he and Dante would've been equals, and if he had been found to be up to something, Dante could've had him snuffed. (and, actually, HE DID)

Of course, I know you know what I was referring to. Just dodging the issue, as is typical of you.

Quick question, but does ANYBODY think shatter is winning this debate besides shatter himself? Let's put this to a vote.
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#19OracleGunnerPosted 12/9/2013 12:23:55 PM
My vote goes to Shatter telling us where is REX and how to access the codex in MGR.
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#20DullahansXMarkPosted 12/9/2013 12:29:48 PM
OracleGunner posted...
My vote goes to Shatter telling us where is REX and how to access the codex in MGR.


Or for giving us a source for DmC selling five million copies. Because he did quote the message saying that it would (and that he would quote it), and he laughed at us (he said he would).

Shatter has more plotholes than this game does.
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