C/D: Devil May Cry (PS2) should get a remake

#31Psychochild27Posted 1/16/2014 12:21:09 PM(edited)

Not being rude here, but you know what a cop-out would be? If the remake in question was just the DMC HD of the DMC collection ripped out and sold as a brand new game with slightly better shadows and audio cues. That would be a cop out to avoid any sort of discussion, "worthwhile" or not of reasonable gameplay adjastments.


He's suggesting Capcom would take the time to build two completely separate combat engines with two different sets of enemies who are balanced around the new and old gameplay mechanics along with two different sets of environments to cater towards each respective gameplay style because he doesn't want to admit his changes would drastically change the core experience to where it isn't recognizable as DMC1 and he doesn't want to argue about it anymore.

What you could do if you insist upon a remake besides the obligatory fancy graphics:

-Give Ifrit one or two branching combos. It's in dire need of more options to put it on par with Alastor.

-Allow user the real time weapon switching though with the following caveats:

Force Edge can not be paired with anything, loses DT meter when you equip back to it. It's supposed to be a gimp handicap weapon for challenge runs like Bayonetta's Handguns weapon. Making it into a gimp Red Queen would not only take that away, but it'd just make it DmC Rebellion and that's pretty terrible.

Alastor and Ifrit are paired up for obvious reasons. There's no issue with accumulating or not being able to accumulate DT for them because you're using the other two weapons.

Sparda takes a note from DMC2 Trish where you can plant the sword and go to a Hand-to-Hand stance giving up DT attacks for much wider or rapid hit-stun attacks. Perhaps a mechanic can be added to give the placement of the sword some strategic depth, such as Dante being able to call it to him from wherever, dicing everything along the way. Bonus points if it tore up the environment on its path back.

-Slap Guns on the D-Pad. Going into the menu screen to change them is clumsy and it kills momentum. It'd also likely encourage everything that isn't the Grenade Gun more.

-Tighten up underwater combat mechanics; a first person floaty camera just feels bad.

-Fix the inconsistencies with SB rank runs.

-Free camera. This one is obvious. Enemies however still maintain the ability to attack off-camera.

-New cutscenes with Langdon that could retcon specific elements that were retconned from DMC1 in subsequent sequels (I can think of two). Also, give Nightmare proper DMC style cutscenes leading into his fights.

-Do another tuning pass on enemies. Some new attacks, some better audio cues, throw some new critical hit opportunities in for enemies who didn't have them (Or add a new one; I always wanted to be able to Uppercut the Shadow Spinny-Blade attack when they come down and have the orb go flying off), MAYBE give some of them a possible (Though not 100%) counter to certain spammy techniques...

-Make Nelo Angelo playable like they did Vile in Maverick Hunter X with Dark Slayer intact and his own skill progression to make him more distinct than Dante (Perhaps getting Nero's Shuffle and Combo... C) along with his own path through the castle which likely would have its own enemy spawns. This in turn would mean yes; recurring boss fights against DMC1 Dante and not this Vante crap.

-I would love to give Dante his Gunslinger tools only because I don't think having more coverage would break things as much as giving him Trickster, Royal Guard and real long aerial combos/JCs to cover the extra face button, but someone would probably call foul so screw it.

's what I would do.

No, we have an HD re-release. Bayonetta's about as new and as good as you're going to get in terms of Kamiya's DMC design choices.


You really gotta try Wonderful 101, Detha. It's way more DMC1 than Bayonetta.
#32Nick_KazamaPosted 1/16/2014 12:19:53 PM
Nah. If you love something, you shouldn't need to ask for a remake of it.

Same with FFVII; if people love it so much, why do they want it remade so badly? Prettier graphics? Arse. Games aren't considered masterpieces based on graphics.
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#33SuperBassPosted 1/16/2014 1:00:31 PM
Psychochild27 posted...
-Fix the inconsistencies with SB rank runs.

There is nothing wrong with DMC1's ranking system, only a lack of understanding how it works. Lenient rankings only come with doing the secret missions. If you don't do the secret missions, you won't get lenient rankings.
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#34Psychochild27Posted 1/16/2014 1:21:44 PM(edited)
SuperBass posted...
Psychochild27 posted...
-Fix the inconsistencies with SB rank runs.

There is nothing wrong with DMC1's ranking system, only a lack of understanding how it works. Lenient rankings only come with doing the secret missions. If you don't do the secret missions, you won't get lenient rankings.


I understand it; still annoys me though.

/fix was admittedly the wrong word. I still want it addressed.
#35DullahansXMark(Topic Creator)Posted 1/16/2014 1:21:29 PM
Psychochild27 posted...
What you could do if you insist upon a remake besides the obligatory fancy graphics:

-Give Ifrit one or two branching combos. It's in dire need of more options to put it on par with Alastor.

-Allow user the real time weapon switching though with the following caveats:

Force Edge can not be paired with anything, loses DT meter when you equip back to it. It's supposed to be a gimp handicap weapon for challenge runs like Bayonetta's Handguns weapon. Making it into a gimp Red Queen would not only take that away, but it'd just make it DmC Rebellion and that's pretty terrible.

Alastor and Ifrit are paired up for obvious reasons. There's no issue with accumulating or not being able to accumulate DT for them because you're using the other two weapons.

Sparda takes a note from DMC2 Trish where you can plant the sword and go to a Hand-to-Hand stance giving up DT attacks for much wider or rapid hit-stun attacks. Perhaps a mechanic can be added to give the placement of the sword some strategic depth, such as Dante being able to call it to him from wherever, dicing everything along the way. Bonus points if it tore up the environment on its path back.

-Slap Guns on the D-Pad. Going into the menu screen to change them is clumsy and it kills momentum. It'd also likely encourage everything that isn't the Grenade Gun more.

-Tighten up underwater combat mechanics; a first person floaty camera just feels bad.

-Fix the inconsistencies with SB rank runs.

-Free camera. This one is obvious. Enemies however still maintain the ability to attack off-camera.

-New cutscenes with Langdon that could retcon specific elements that were retconned from DMC1 in subsequent sequels (I can think of two). Also, give Nightmare proper DMC style cutscenes leading into his fights.

-Do another tuning pass on enemies. Some new attacks, some better audio cues, throw some new critical hit opportunities in for enemies who didn't have them (Or add a new one; I always wanted to be able to Uppercut the Shadow Spinny-Blade attack when they come down and have the orb go flying off), MAYBE give some of them a possible (Though not 100%) counter to certain spammy techniques...

-Make Nelo Angelo playable like they did Vile in Maverick Hunter X with Dark Slayer intact and his own skill progression to make him more distinct than Dante (Perhaps getting Nero's Shuffle and Combo... C) along with his own path through the castle which likely would have its own enemy spawns. This in turn would mean yes; recurring boss fights against DMC1 Dante and not this Vante crap.

-I would love to give Dante his Gunslinger tools only because I don't think having more coverage would break things as much as giving him Trickster, Royal Guard and real long aerial combos/JCs to cover the extra face button, but someone would probably call foul so screw it.

's what I would do.


And there we go. You suggested an idea of your own, and it actually sounds like a good one. It keeps the game's overall dynamic without just being a straight-up graphics enhancement. I like it.

As a sort of bonus I almost wanna suggest letting Super Dante (or perhaps a separate costume unlocked alongside Super Dante) use the Sparda DT in normal gameplay. I mean, you just beat the game on its hardest difficulty, there's nothing for you to cheese through with it outside the realm of fun. And anyone who's done the Fierce Deity Glitch in Majora's Mask knows how fun it can be to cheese through things you've already accomplished XD

Either way, I actually like this idea a lot. It's a good one.
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#36Psychochild27Posted 1/16/2014 1:50:07 PM(edited)
And there we go. You suggested an idea of your own, and it actually sounds like a good one.


I don't know how you're surprised. Every time this sort of topic comes up I usually drop a 3,000 character wall of text like that. I just got distracted by the suggestion that changing everything wouldn't change everything that much.

It keeps the game's overall dynamic without just being a straight-up graphics enhancement.


Exactly. Reasonable gameplay adjustments.

As a sort of bonus I almost wanna suggest letting Super Dante (or perhaps a separate costume unlocked alongside Super Dante) use the Sparda DT in normal gameplay.


Problem with that is you get this gorgeous PS4/Xbox 1 remake and you have Sparda DT's swings clipping through the walls all over the place regardless of where he's standing in the room. I wouldn't be opposed to a much more subdued and toned down version. Muuuuuuch more subdued.
#37sarris98Posted 1/16/2014 1:47:32 PM
@ Psychochild : Never, ever bring the "fancy graphics" up when seriously talking about a remake of a game. It automatically rots each and every good thing about a discussion. Unless by "fancy graphics" you mean "MT Frameworks and DMC4 level graphs" which Kobayashi and gang have been working pretty tightly on with their Sengoku BASARA series. Then it's ok...just wanna know what you meant...I'm honestly ok even with HD DMC3 graphics. Hell, don't be surprised if I suggest that Kobayashi and Itsuno keep it as a japan only PS3 title like Sengoku BASARA 4.

To the actual remake stuff, they don't need to make two different engines, just one. Like Dullahan and I said previously, add styles and more combos to the weapons, all of them. Now, worthwihile additions IMO would be :

- Add a DMC3 lock-on. I know it seems stupid, but in DMC3 I could see the target and the life of the enemy far better than in 4.

- Have Force Edge use a bit of Nero's Red Queen lenghty unconventional combos as an addition while Dante keeps his Devil Trigger when using the sword.

- Have Alastor gain the entire Rebelion moveset and have Dante transform in Alastor Trigger like he did in DMC1.

- Have Ifrit be a hard hitting version of Gilgamesh but with the Hundred Crack fists crazy combo Beowulf had, since they use a similar gimmick, but with fire. Also, Dante transforms into Ifrit when DT-ing, like in DMC1.

- Revamp Sparda almost completely and while the main combo can have some Rebelion elements, the rest of the branches and Style combos have to be both completely original(some actual Spear moves) and a but of the scythe swinging of Nevan. Also, Dante can turn into Sparda outside of the Mundus battle, only if he has the Super Dante Costume.

- On the fly style switching but with a small addition from DMC4. Instead of having three weapons ready at any time, during the weapon choice in the statue of divinity you lock the two weapons and two guns you want to each style, to give more options to the players when changing styles allowing for DMC4's Style versatility and DMC3's weapon changin versatility. That on the D-Pad.

- Mission Select screen and Bloody palace.

- The upgrading should be handled either by the DMC3 system.

- Bring back the accessories from DMC2 but with the DMC1 twist : have the bangle of time unlock the "Quicksilver Style", another accessory that unlocks Doppelganger, all tapped into the double direction tappin d-pad, like in DMC4. Also, only one accessory is allowed to be equiped at a time.

- New scenes with Dante to add upon the DMC3 and manga stuff that were created in the mean time. Not really retcons or anything, sonce nothing about the whole "Gilver" incident nor the "Dark Mercenary" past of Dante were touched upon in DMC1, it only happened in the novel by Gokeida that was retconned via DMC3.

- An add-on scenario unlocked that shows how Dante, comically got his DMC4 persona and how he broke up the partnership of Trish and "Devil(s) Never Cry", possibly extending beyond the anime.

And keep the rest intact, the enemy data collecting, the tight corridors etc everything. Hell, keep the half-4$$ed shooter section Kamiya wants so much in his games and the game's golden. As for the classic mode : just strip the additions made to the gameplay that stem from DMC3 & 4 and you are golden! No need for two game engines or anything, just a bit of a gimp, but an effectivelly nostalgic one.

So, that's about it for the remake idea. Taken out the good game remakes book...if Falcom bothered to make one. Having seen good remakes, believe me, only the very lazy and sub-par / generic games get the "HD treatment" as a "game remake". This may be a common practice here, but the japanese think differently.
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#38sarris98Posted 1/16/2014 1:54:19 PM
Nick_Kazama posted...
Nah. If you love something, you shouldn't need to ask for a remake of it.

Same with FFVII; if people love it so much, why do they want it remade so badly? Prettier graphics? Arse. Games aren't considered masterpieces based on graphics.


That's some really close minded logic. If that was the case, there shouldn't exist remakes that either : 1) Reflect the creator's true intentions but couldn't get made due to hardware constrictions aka PSP Ghosts'n'Goblins, Mega Man Maverick Hunter X and some Falcom games like Brandish : Dark Revenant or 2.)because the creators and fans of the series honestly feel that some new or changed game mechanics could make the game greater than what it is, like Mega Man Powered Up or with Ys : Memories of Celceta, Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles etc.

As for FFVII, several gameplay additions can make it even more excellent than it is today, one of them actually being a fighting mini game like the one Xenogears had among the rest of the mini games getting better tune-ups to match the current level of FF mini-games.

As for graphics don't make games masterpieces...eh...based on narrative, FFVII isn't one that needs that sort of visual narrative though.

PS : Double posting due to exceed letter limit.
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#39DullahansXMark(Topic Creator)Posted 1/16/2014 2:33:04 PM
Psychochild27 posted...
I don't know how you're surprised. Every time this sort of topic comes up I usually drop a 3,000 character wall of text like that. I just got distracted by the suggestion that changing everything wouldn't change everything that much.


Yeah, I just re-read what I said and realized I sounded a little condescending :/ Sorry about that.

Problem with that is you get this gorgeous PS4/Xbox 1 remake and you have Sparda DT's swings clipping through the walls all over the place regardless of where he's standing in the room. I wouldn't be opposed to a much more subdued and toned down version. Muuuuuuch more subdued.


Yeah, I'm re-watching the final boss fight and I forgot just how HUUUUGE the swings get. Would it clipping through walls matter that much, though? I mean, clipping IS generally bad, but it's not like it's the ACTUAL sword itself doing the clipping, it's the energy lines that come off the weapon. Maybe they could add an effect where sword cuts into walls actually leave gashes (for every sword, not just DT Sparda) to give the illusion that it ISN'T clipping through the wall. You know, like bullet holes in shooter games. (they could add those, too XD) I mean, just a black streak in the wall. You don't need to be able to see the room on the other side of the wall or anything.

Either way, it should be considerably subdued, but not TOO much. Using the Sparda DT would be pointless if it weren't gratuitously OP XD
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#40Psychochild27Posted 1/16/2014 3:09:10 PM(edited)


Yeah, I'm re-watching the final boss fight and I forgot just how HUUUUGE the swings get. Would it clipping through walls matter that much, though? I mean, clipping IS generally bad, but it's not like it's the ACTUAL sword itself doing the clipping, it's the energy lines that come off the weapon. Maybe they could add an effect where sword cuts into walls actually leave gashes (for every sword, not just DT Sparda) to give the illusion that it ISN'T clipping through the wall. You know, like bullet holes in shooter games. (they could add those, too XD) I mean, just a black streak in the wall. You don't need to be able to see the room on the other side of the wall or anything.

Either way, it should be considerably subdued, but not TOO much. Using the Sparda DT would be pointless if it weren't gratuitously OP XD


If I had a say, I'd much rather have Sparda's Devil Trigger be unique outside of Mundus' Arena as it's honestly not necessary and just toy with it as this ridiculous anime-ass weapon of mass destruction.

Normal swings will be much wilder and faster almost as if it's fighting to free itself from Dante's grasp. Doing the Sword Plant would do this massive Boss-Beowulf style Volcano only much bigger and flashier than your Inferno which leaves a damage over time area in the blast area while the DT is active (And the sword itself just wigging out where it's embedded). Calling it back will have it prioritize whatever route between Dante and the sword which will nail as many enemies as possible. Round Trip will have that same, wild pathing around an enemy that Pandora's Round Trip knock-off has around an enemy, only it ends up creating this vacuum in the middle of the room that drags everything towards it, making it effectively... well, a much more bad-ass Twister.

Stinger meanwhile takes the most obvious turn and changes into a ghetto Devil Bringer that no longer carries Dante forward, but instead extends the lance head a significant distance before the scythe flips out and drags everything caught in its path back to Dante (And yes, make this air target-able. Why should those stupid Death Scythes think they're safe from me because they're flying around outside the lightning cage like asses?).

This would pretty much screw unarmed Dante, but screw unarmed Dante.