This game has done more GOOD for the series than BAD.

#141darkslayer001Posted 2/12/2014 10:19:33 AM(edited)
Taizuku posted...
darkslayer001 posted...
Taizuku posted...
syctheweilder posted...
Tai usually puts forth a reasoned arguments, but this one is so shot full of holes i don't even know where to start.


It's really not. It's basic marketing. It's kind of like the whole "New Coke" thing. Again, the proof will be in the pudding when DMC5 comes out.


It will only work if DMC5 will sell roughly 6 million copies...


Again, you read what I said wrong. I didn't say it will sell more than the entire series combined. I meant more than any individual game in the series, but less than DMC4. I explicitly state this.


so how is next DMC selling 'more than individual game in the series and less than DMC4' better for the franchise than a DMC5 and DMC6 selling similar amounts?

regarding your saturating with garbage to get a big gain at the end, you have to realize the garbage has paralyzed Capcom to a huge extent that it is gonna take years to recover, and this is not only based on DMC franchise.
I think your making the point that DmC brought the standard down to a point that some future HnS is gonna be better... But it is a fact that DmC has damaged DMC franchise

Taizuku posted...
Why do you think DMC5 would've eclipsed DMC4's numbers? I can tell several reasons why I know for a fact it would not.


going with the fact that every DMC iteration, even the awful DMC2, managed to triumph its predecessors commercially, as confirmed by capcom, ya i think DMC5 in 2013 would easily sell as much or even more than DMC4, especially when there is more consoles in the market as compared to 2008
#142A_Nonny_MoosePosted 2/12/2014 10:07:51 AM
From: Taizuku | Posted: 2/12/2014 5:03:34 PM | #140
DMC5 is guaranteed to sell more than DmC, and as soon as it does, my prediction is correct.

It would have sold more anyway.
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#143darkslayer001Posted 2/12/2014 10:17:37 AM(edited)
Taizuku posted...
TheOriginalMax posted...
Taizuku posted...
New Coke.


The "New Coke" argument also doesn't hold. Yes, it could be possible, but it's not proof because it hasn't happened here. Be it "yet" or "never", you currently defeated yourself with your very own argument. Just because something happened in the past, doesn't mean it will happen again.

I won't pressure you anymore to get the point I'm making. It's becoming increasingly rude on my behalf to keep telling you you're missing a vital point in my argument and quite condescending to you, so I'll stop. I don't know what motivation you have to keep doing so, but it's clearly important to you at a personal level, so I'll respect your stance on the matter, no matter how erroneous an argument you make.

I wish you all the best, and I hope you're getting exactly what you wanted from here with your behavior.


You starve the consumer base, then you feed them when they are starving and they'll overeat. I don't believe I've defeated myself because I'm not trying to win something. I've made an observation, and I'm pretty confident in it. No one else has to be, I don't mind people tossing opinions back and forth. I'm not being uncouth or rude, no one is being uncouth or rude to me, and if they are that's fine.

You all say it won't happen. But I'm positive DMC5 is going to sell.

I really don't even see what you all are arguing. If you're arguing against me you're saying DMC5 WONT sell. Which is not the case. If you're arguing against DmC not being good for the series in the future, you're still wrong. DMC5 is guaranteed to sell more than DmC, and as soon as it does, my prediction is correct.

But again, if you think I'm wrong, this has happened countless times before.


just gonna chime in, regarding the starving of consumer base, say DMC fanbase is around 3 million at most. They will play other games in the mean time and they will definitely buy the next DMC. The problem is DmC was turned down many people and they didn't buy it. of course DMC5 is gonna sell since that community still exists, which capcom probably don't recognize, but who is gonna cover the 2 million copies that DmC failed to sell?

I think the point where we clash is that you believe that DMC5 released in place of DmC won't sell as much as DMC4, and that is where we disagree.
#144TheOriginalMaxPosted 2/12/2014 10:49:52 AM
Taizuku posted...
I understand what you're saying quite clearly. But you keep saying I don't have proof when this same marketing strategy has worked 100 times over.


No, you clearly don't understand at all if you keep saying this after I just said what I said.
Yes, it could be possible, but it's not proof because it hasn't happened here. Be it "yet" or "never", you currently defeated yourself with your very own argument. Just because something happened in the past, doesn't mean it will happen again.

Furthermore that didn't work with DMC3, for the umpteenth time. DMC2 was horrible when it came out and almost destroyed the franchise, just look at DMC3's sales numbers. If what you said is a factor that is unchanging(as you clearly keep putting it), then DMC3 should have sold a lot more than it did, but it sold the least, barring DmC. It COULD be the reason why DMC4 sold so well.

You all say it won't happen. But I'm positive DMC5 is going to sell.


No, I never said that. I think it's very unlikely they would make a new DMC, and I find it even more unlikely that it would sell enough to make Capcom happy, because too much damage has been made by 1. DmC, and 2. Capcom themselves.

DMC5 is guaranteed to sell more than DmC, and as soon as it does, my prediction is correct.


What happened to this not being about winning? Also why are you moving the goalpost? DMC5 selling more than DmC =/= DmC being good to the franchise. There's literally no train of logic behind a statement like that. You cannot prove that DmC was good to the franchise, if DMC5 sold more than DmC, you have to compare it to the other titles and take into consideration multiple other factors. You completely missed the point about capitalization in my FP; if there are less customers to capitalize on at a current time compared to a previous time, it does not mean the current time was good for the whole franchise, in fact it's just the opposite. If DMC5 sold less than DMC4, DmC would have not been good to the series. Not only do they have less customers to capitalize on, they may have less profits depending on how much money they make.

But again, if you think I'm wrong, this has happened countless times before.


WHICH IS NOT A FACTOR THAT GUARANTEES IT HAPPENING AGAIN. It's a thing that may happen, but is not in itself proof of it happening again. That's why people with psychopathic tendencies that have assaulted another person once in the past, are not immediately jailed and made to serve for a lifetime in prison: Things happening in the past are not guarantees of them happening again.

You don't have provable arguments, and insisting on it being somehow "proven to work like X", is wrong, because there is no such thing that does so.
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#145Ink-RibbonPosted 2/12/2014 11:35:07 AM
Well, regarding original series, almost every sequel sold less than the previous game.

DMC 2 sold less than DMC 1. Then DMC 3 sold less than DMC 2. Then, DMC 3 SE sold less than all previous games. Then we got DMC 4 which sold 2.700.000 copies. However, if you take into account that all previous games were PS exclusive and managed to sell more than 2 million or almost that, DMC 4 didn't sell that much. You could argue it sold 1.350.000 for PS3 and the same for XBOX. Now DmC came and sold less than DMC 1,2 and 4, but more than 3 and SE. Then we got HD collection, which sold even less...

Chances are that a new DMC ( or maybe DmC ) is gonna sell less. Now, maybe there is a chance that a DmC 2 could change the system, by selling more than DmC 1. However, we won't know it, unless Capcom confirms and releases DmC 2. Now, if they confirm DMC 5, you bet it's gonna sell less than DMC 4.

Just imagine the confusion. Series got a reboot. Then instead of a sequel for the reboot, they make a new sequel for the original series. Then, major audiences will get confused. Those who disliked DmC will think DMC 5 is more of the same and they won't buy it. Those who liked DmC will ask why isn't it called DmC 2 and so on...

They could make 2 entirely different series and universes, like Megaman and X series. I remember a year where both Megaman 8 and X4 got released.

So, they can treat original DMC as original MM series and DmC as the X series. Case solved. XD
#146DullahansXMarkPosted 2/12/2014 11:58:41 AM
I see it a bit differently. I'm using myself as evidence for this theory, so yes, the following is a true story on my part.

This game was controversial the moment the trailer first aired. The entire Internet was up in flames about "not my Dante" and other such stuff as that. Many, a lot of whom were not involved in the slightest, saw all this going on and just said to themselves, "just how good were the originals, anyway?" So they picked up either the HD Collection or DMC4 and played it, and possibly REALLY enjoyed it. So the bad publicity of this game drew in a new crowd to enjoy the originals.

But yes, now a real DMC5 must come. And it has to be good.
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#147rahmed51387Posted 2/12/2014 12:00:53 PM
While normally, Tai, I agree with your posts and ideas, I'm actually finding Max's argument to be a little more likely.

The expectation and reputation of what DMC represents to the customers have been fundamentally changed, and with this entry to the series, now extremely divided.

I'm inclined to believe that the reason that DMC4 sold much more than 3 was because since DMC2 left a bad mark on what DMC1 had generated, people were hesitant to buy 3. After people started hearing how many things 3 had improved over 2, they may have tried it (used, most likely), and gained respect and anticipation for 4, which led to better sales, even with all the new drastic changes that were implemented.

Obviously we've all been around for the PR shenanigans that IMO definitely hurt the rep (and the future sales), and that was damage done BEFORE the game released. In other words, people are going to remember this as the most current DMC experience, and most people won't take the time/effort to consider DMC and DmC as separate titles.

If DMC5 does what DMC3 did, then I see your prediction holding true for a possible DMC6. But as of right now, they've got a LOT of backlash to make up for or a sincere decision to make as to what direction DM(m)C will take.
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#148Taizuku(Topic Creator)Posted 2/12/2014 1:21:03 PM
rahmed51387 posted...
While normally, Tai, I agree with your posts and ideas, I'm actually finding Max's argument to be a little more likely.

The expectation and reputation of what DMC represents to the customers have been fundamentally changed, and with this entry to the series, now extremely divided.

I'm inclined to believe that the reason that DMC4 sold much more than 3 was because since DMC2 left a bad mark on what DMC1 had generated, people were hesitant to buy 3. After people started hearing how many things 3 had improved over 2, they may have tried it (used, most likely), and gained respect and anticipation for 4, which led to better sales, even with all the new drastic changes that were implemented.



That's kind of like what I said just even further out. Like people would be hesitant to buy DMC5, then they'd see the improvements and anticipate 6.
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#149NostalgiaRulesPosted 2/12/2014 9:51:03 PM
Kyrylo posted...
Serious problem with reboot: it killed franchises individuality. Before it with it pros and cons DMC games retained it's genes and it's individuality. DmC killed it. So after that no matter what Capcom do, it will be met with hate. DmC2 will still be undermined by original fans. And if DMC5 announce most DmC fans will throw butthurt rage fit and undermine it, just because original fans DARED to vote with their wallet :P


^ Sadly, this may happen as well. Spite can make people do some weird things. If a DMC 5 is made (and I hope that does happen), some fans of DmC may not buy DMC 5 out of pure spite to get back at people who didn't buy DmC just to send a message that they want "weaboo, animu Dante" to go away. And the same thing could happen if a DmC 2 was made. I'm not saying that would happen and maybe it's highly unlikely.
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#150StrelokPosted 2/13/2014 3:09:33 AM
I won't get either, because at this point, I'm just not buying any Capcom products.
Their shenanigans made me boycot them, and so far I'monly really missing the Ducktales remake.
Maybe Dragons Dogma (which looked eh to me) and Asuras Wrath (And I say no to a game that is 90% QTE)
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