More Survivors discussion! :D

#1Roll_kix_azzPosted 8/18/2013 8:07:32 PM
Okay, I know I might get flamed for this. But I'm convinced that Carla and EX Leon are better than the Assault Rifle characters. Even Jake EX can be better if he gets enough ammo.

After playing with a bunch of other really good players, I've come to learn that the assault rifles aren't all that scary. Quickshots can be easily avoided by running circles around your opponent. Quickshot > pray and spray is easily avoidable, especially Helena's. Quickshot x n isn't even feasible if you can't get close or in an enclosed area like on any bridge in Liquid Fire for example, since running circles dodges quickshots from assault rifles. Leon EX's rifle quickshot seems to be completely unaviodable in this method, and Quickshot x n from that = death.

Snipers are far more dangerous and far more annoying. They don't have to get close to hit you, and if you get hit at all by one you're pretty much dead unless you can get lucky and fall out of their sight since they can just rapid weapon switch. EX Leon doesn't need to do this, just shoot and while they're stumbling aim for the head, BLAM dead just like that if you have Target Master.

Carla has a sniper rifle and an Assault Shotgun, which with shooting wild can destroy you without being in quick shot range. If you're hit by this at all you're dead, no questions. Assault rifles have pretty good range too, but the Assault shotgun scores knock downs faster.

With that said, here is my new tier list for this mode. Piers obviously still remains the best because screw Piers. -.-

I'm also going to include creatures because in a room with a lot of people they play a big factor

(This is assuming with 6 players, no one is collecting power weapons.)

S+

Piers Default
Piers EX

S

Carla
Leon EX

A

Jake EX - Hand to Hand barely keeps him out of S. Get a good amount of ammo and you're good to go. Snipers are still dangerous even at close range, and if you get knocked down by one at close range you're MEGA screwed.

Sherry Default - With Grenade round

Chris EX - Assault Shotgun > Assault Rifle imo.

Default Leon - Shotgun and dual pistols are deadly. <.<

Chris Default/Sherry Default (w/ out Grenade round since she only has one)
Helena Default

Neo-Umbrella J'avo/Edonia J'avo - If you get hit, pray you can get a counter/roll away. These things are INCREDIBLY fast and in groups you don't stand much of a chance, especially if you're using the characters who don't get ammo often. Their dash attack is pretty dang good too.

B

Default Ada
Ada EX
Chinese J'avo- Their poor dash attack hinders compared to their counterparts.
Helena EX

C
Agent- In a room with 6 people, he's not scary at all, unless he respawns after death with just one person left lol.

Sherry EX - Heavily reliant on quickshot whiff punishes, Hand Grenade setups, and CDG's for big damage. Can be a really good stealth sniper with arrows, but that requires a lot of skill and patience.

Jake Default - MP-AF is a weaker assault rifle, no long range options. MP-AF pray and spray > Incendiary grenade when they're floored is your fastest option for a kill.

D

Zombies- unless you can gang up on someone or sneak a kill, have fun. <.<

/mountain of text
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Remember: Roll is FTW, ppl who h8 her are FTL. This is a golden rule
Official Ino of the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 board
#2UnfoolishPosted 8/19/2013 2:22:14 PM
Default Piers and Racer Piers are still braindead.

Default Chris, Default Sherry, Default Helena are still braindead with the quickshot stunlock infinite loop, still very much broken. If you can camp like Piers, you can keep them out.

Pirate Leon and Carla control spacing on larger maps like Steel Beast, High Seas Fortress, Creature Workshop and especially if you use Blue Pirate Leon and Carla, they can camp all day and camouflage blend on that map. Annoying characters to fight against.

I ran into Ada EX players today, she is very cheap since I was mopped up by her today. She has the Triple Shot quickshot stun into weapon switch quickshot Crossbow Pipe Bomb which explodes so she scores a free grenade toss (Incendiary/Hand) on knockdowns; all this was huge damage with Shooting Wild skill equipped.

If you play on Classic Controls (which you change here from default to classic) like RE5 (Type A,B,C or D) with QCT you can avoid other players running around in a circle on you. Players been circling around me all day trying to quickshot whiff punish, I destroy them up close afterwards. One you get hit by the AR quickshot stunlock infinite loop, you are done where as if you get hit by shotguns, you can tech roll followups to attempt escapes.

The tier list really hasn't changed much because many thing are situational. On larger maps, Piers, Carla, Leon EX are a threat because of camping. On smaller maps, the characters ridiculous up close thrive like Default Leon, AR tier characters.

The characters are still bottom tier is Default Jake, Helena EX and Sherry EX. Stun Rod is useless unless the other player is out of ammo so they have to melee you which then Stun Rod wins since it drains combat gauge per charge and if your opponent is out of herbs....CDG to the face. Again, weapons will take out melee characters any day.

Default Ada seems like the balanced character in this game. Her Remote Bomb is good for crowd control. Her Crossbow gives her advantage on knockdowns, reload is terrible unless quickshot. Her Ammo Box 50 does not have a strong firepower unlike braindead AR tier who shoot the entire clip for the win.

Chris EX is still very good. His Flash Grenade (these grenades are cheap in this game draining all stamina), his Assault Shotgun can score him knockdowns into rapid weapon switch. When it comes to up close combat when players are out of ammo, his Combat Knife seem to have range priority versus the Stun Rod and Jake's combat.

Default Helena is still very cheap, still an AR character. The Hydra is cheap after quickshot from AR into weapon switch, a triple barrel blast from the Hydra scores her a win.

Last but least, stages do play a huge factor in tiers. You can make one for small maps and one for large maps which are separate, some characters win, some characters don't. Nevertheless, Piers is still #1 broken since he can be braindead up close and unapproachable on the largest maps because he can camp all day and still be a threat anywhere on screen. AR/Shotgun characters dominate small maps, Snipers win the larger maps.

After playing Survivors, I can freely say that Leon EX and Ada EX were overlooked because I got destroyed by those two characters by players who used broken cheap tactics which I mentioned above. All Sherry, Chris and Helena players still rely on the braindead strategy they were all clones; same with Piers. Bottom tier is still bottom tier, poor them nothing changed lol

Also, Stealth Movement skill I found works best on characters like Sherry EX, Default Ada, Ada EX they can go undetected on the map. I saw a Piers player who had this skill, immediately I heard the loud sound of his AMSR, I pinpoint him and shot the RPG at him in Urban Chaos lmao. Whereas today I was being shot at with random arrows out of nowhere by those characters I mentioned... XD
#3Roll_kix_azz(Topic Creator)Posted 8/19/2013 5:02:34 PM
Wow I didn't know switching the controls actually dealt with circling, I have to test that later. And I have to agree a tier list for this mode is rather redundant since any character can win, some just take more work than others. Especially EX Sherry, girl has no type of fast damage lol.

I noticed the EX Ada "combo," so she might need to move up. Heck even without Shooting Wild it kills. O.o

Helena EX is one of my faves to use along with EX Sherry. Her biggest issue is having to get EXTREMELY close to deal damage. The Hydra doesn't have as good range as the Assault and Default Shotguns, and only holds three shells. But if she gets a knockdown she can chuck a grenade and shoot the opponent again before they can recover. The Flash Grenade also helps her get in safely. I just wish ammo was a more common pick up for her though... :(

The Crossbow users are never given away if they shoot, even without Stealth Movement. I personally use Sherry EX with Pharmacist because she's really dependent on CDG's, and I'm terrible at aiming the Crossbow without the laser sight, so Shooting Wild isn't an option for me. She can win and be very annoying by playing behind the scenes, stealth sniping with the crossbow, preparing by nabbing any boxes and creature kills she can. Letting everyone dwindle each other down, then swoop in and take everyone out! You might get a lot of hate for this, but it's fun. xD

And I don't think stage difference is gonna make me think the AR characters > Carla and Leon EX.
They have deadly close range weapons too, Carla with the Assault Shotgun. Leon has his pistols which let him just knockdown > rapid weapon switch to lol sniper rifle.

And we do not need to discuss Piers, because "GOD DAMN IT, PIERS!" I swear whenever someone picks Piers I'm terrified to move about the map until I know where he is. And I make it my life's mission to make sure he dies somehow! >:

Maybe I am underestimating Default Helena a bit. The lower fire rate of her AR does hinder her a bit, and like Helena EX the Hydra isn't doing much damage unless you're literally breathing down your opponent's necks. Then there's the problem of her Quickshot x n loop missing since her spacing has to be a bit precise.

And lastly, the Stun rod isn't COMPLETELY bad. It's good for killing creatures in silence, and it saves ammo. But the same can be said for any melee weapon.
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Remember: Roll is FTW, ppl who h8 her are FTL. This is a golden rule
Official Ino of the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 board
#4sbn4Posted 8/19/2013 11:01:39 PM
Stun Rod blows against enemies. The downed attack is way too slow. I'd rather just do two slides and back melee to kill enemies.

And I think EX Chris is over-rated here. He's pretty garbage outside of close range. Carla has the same shotgun and a sniper. Thus making EX Chris automatically weaker. Flash grenades are annoying but a single healing item pretty much negates its effects. Plus Chris' CDG is way too slow to take advantage of it.

I always thought Carla and Pirate Leon were pretty good. I still think the two most annoying characters in the mode are Piers and Default Sherry. So braindead. Sherry starting out with an M203 round makes her even dumber. If she misses or fails to kill you with her clip somehow, simply switch to grenade and BAM.

And why do I struggle against EX Helenas? Is she invincible in her quick shot animations? I've had instances where I tried both quick shots and manual firing with Default Chris and all my shots miss. Plus, whenever I seem to try to use her, she whiffs quickshots or hits a zombie instead. Yet when others use her, she does her roll from like a mile away and they knock me down. -_-
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"No man should fight any war but his own."
#5Keroro_2350Posted 8/20/2013 12:47:37 AM
I think Helena Ex was best when you get real close and quickshot once then rapid fire twice on your opponant it's Shooting Wild as it deals quite a lot of damage but I don't get that some players manage to quickshot 3 times in a row and that very 3 shot damage me which doesn't make sense because when I do the second quickshot,Helena actually face the wall and shoot it and its stupid.
But there one thing I'm sure is that you can cancel out Helena quickshot Hydra if your quick enough to quickshot her before she pulls the trigger. Helena AR has the strongest firepower of the 3 AR so with Target Master,it's defenitely a win if you manage to quickshot first and fire half the clip.

I always struggle when using AdaEx and Sherry Ex,she's really weak with her crossbow. I tried to hide and shoot arrows from a far away place but even if I hit the target,it's too weak to deal much damage and when I'm on my second shot they already ran away. I love using them in Death Matches because I was playing little dirty by stealing someone else kills or interrupt players when they are fighting.

I hate that the Javo are so fast and deadly it they surround you,when I was playing death matche and was on my way to kill my last opponant or maybe trying to stealth my way,those damn Javo would blow my cover and start slashing and it's really unfair because those players always target me and not the others. One time I had like 5 Javo players chasing me and its really unfair because they could easily kill off the other player as he/she was hiding in the ship in HSF.
#6aniversaryPosted 8/20/2013 5:32:46 AM
i always use default Ada because im getting quite skilled with her in high sea fortress with right team i usually win easily crossbow do knock opponents down and then switch weapon. i used quick shoot damage or shooting wild both worked for me. i dont use piers because i like some challenge with game
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#7UnfoolishPosted 8/20/2013 12:47:05 PM
After playing Survivors about 5 hours yesterday, I came to the conclusion that the stages play a huge factor in characters. One example was when my team which was Pirate Leon and two Default Piers and the other team was Default Helena, Default Sherry and Piers in Creature Workshop. We were on the top of the map sniping the other team endlessly and they could not get up due to rapid weapon switch with Piers AMSR and multiple shots at a target so basically sniping characters dominate a large map while the up close characters are limited in offense. On the smaller maps sniper characters are still good as campers like Piers in Urban Chaos on top of the bus overlooking everyone. Default Chris, Default Sherry are extremely braindead and I can't count how much quickshot stunlock infinite loops I've came accross and the unloading the entire AR clip into death. Also Ada EX is ridiculous, 2-3 quickshots stunlock with her Triple Shot (even when she shoots with the handgun, it gives her a hard knockdown) into weapon switch into Pipe Bomb then Incendiary Grenade toss plus the explosion (equip Shooting Wild, it's broken material) is just as bad like in RE5 with Jill Battlesuit with Incendiary Grenade abuse.

Sherry EX is terrible, once she is out of arrows and no items as grenades to use, she relies heavily on melee and that Stun Rod which exhausts her combat gauge. I was using her and the other player was Piers, he ran out of AMSR but he still had MP-AF. It was so lopsided that I might as well put the controller down but there was tons of sliding and circling going on and even with QCT on Sherry EX, it does nothing for her. She is the worst. Helena EX is close too but she can pick up ammo for the Hydra and she already comes with 6 shells and her quickshot is an evasive dodging tool up close. Sherry EX should be used as a camper, she has no up close tools and she relies on item/power weapons to win.

I personally find AR characters and Sniper character interchangeable based on the map. AR character are still stronger and braindead than Shotgun characters and the fact AR characters can abuse the quickshot stunlock infinite loop. I literally got quickshot like 4-5 times in a row by a Sherry player then put into dying status, that is extremely scrubby. Same with Chris but Sherry is worst because of her Explosive Round and her Flash Grenade which can prevent you from moving and she gets in on you as your combat gauge drained and you are about to use a herb to restore.

As far as ranking
1.) Default Piers, Piers EX
2.) Default Sherry
3.) Default Chris, Default Helena (Smaller Maps) - Interchangeable
3.) Leon EX, Carla (Larger Maps) - Interchangeable
4.) Ada EX
5.) Default Leon, Chris EX, Agent
6.) Jake EX, Helena EX
7.) Default Jake, Sherry EX

It seems in RE6, character hitbox sizes is not an issue this time around. In RE5 Jill and Sheva were small hitbox character especially with Battlesuit Jill and BSAA Jill. There were things to abuse in Versus mode with Jill, such as the QCT and also if your opponent is aiming at you, use control set C/D Jill can side walk so their shots will miss in front of them and Jill gets a free Incendiary Grenade toss into kill mode then whistle teabag then BAM Cartwheel kill!....as you are dead Jill will shank with her knife over your dead body as you respawn XD
#8GiveMeSomeVodkaPosted 8/25/2013 12:28:53 PM
incoming massive wall of text.

i have to laugh at the comments made by some of the users who posted.

every character is phenomenal in their own way and live up to great standards when used correctly. my two friends and i completely demolished teams of assault rifles and snipers playing as costume sherry. and these players weren't newbies by any sense of the word. all it takes is control, actual skill, and knowledge to use these characters that are "hindered" or deemed less powerful than other characters.

i can't believe people actually consider flash grenades and costume ada cheap. i just think that is ridiculously exaggerated, and i know for a fact that would not genuinely cause a threat to me, let alone be considered "cheap."

the stun rod and knife are also largely underestimated. it just takes a lot of practice to get used to, but they're definitely easy weapons to get kills with if both parties are out of ammo - which usually happens during the later minutes of the round. even if the other team/ players have long range weapons or ammo, it's just not too difficult to really use a close range weapon (including jake's hand-to-hand). if you're wasting a lot of stamina using the stun rod or knife, then you're most likely not using the weapon all that skillfully, so of course you're going to have a harder time in comparison to someone who knows how to utilize these weapons to their potential.

there's a very distinctive and precise scoring system that many players do not understand. i've learned that using the scoring system's knowledge WILL help you go against many odds.

what do i consider cheap? anything anybody can do easily: cycle shooting, using power weapons, quick shot spamming and camping. for the most part, everything else is pretty much fair game, including ganging up on someone. i find that if players still complain about default sherry, default chris and default helena, they haven't actually taken the time to really hone out their skills in order to get rid of these characters with relative ease; however, i do agree that anyone can win with these characters more easily than with costume sherry or the like. that's just obvious.

the assault rifles, machine pistols and handguns all play out the same way - though, obviously, some weapons are more advantageous than others, but each can take out a player at full health in just one clip.

if you know how to have your pipe-bombs detonate on contact, then the crossbow is an extremely lethal weapon as well.

my favorite characters to use are both ada, both leon and costume jake with last stand. when the going gets cheap, i like switching to other characters that can handle an engagement better, such as an assault rifle user. piers is ok. i use costume piers from time to time so i can kill fast with his picador, another underestimated weapon.

obviously some characters are easier to win with than others - but that does not mean the others in this case should be ruled out completely. many a times i've kill these very talented players when they select these "braindead" characters when i'm default ada or costume helena. it all depends on the individual's skill.

let me have been on creature workshop as an assault rifle team against camping snipers. i most likely would not have lost. it's definitely the skill of the player and the strategic use of team work and just basic knowledge, ranging from knowing how to count the rounds left in a piers's sniper to listening for footsteps and for the sound of other players using herbs to heal themselves so that you can estimate how many they have left.

i used to play without the use of power weapons, but that was back around the 3-month period where i was actually considerate and being more fair. however, now i just don't give a damn about what people say: if you try to be nice to them by not using the rocket launcher in your inventory, they STILL will use it against you when they have it instead.
#9sbn4Posted 8/25/2013 6:26:45 PM
my favorite characters to use are both ada, both leon and costume jake with last stand. when the going gets cheap, i like switching to other characters that can handle an engagement better, such as an assault rifle user. piers is ok. i use costume piers from time to time so i can kill fast with his picador, another underestimated weapon.

obviously some characters are easier to win with than others - but that does not mean the others in this case should be ruled out completely. many a times i've kill these very talented players when they select these "braindead" characters when i'm default ada or costume helena. it all depends on the individual's skill.


These two paragraphs kind of negate your concept of everyone is phenomenal in their own way. Because if players are of equal skill, then a team filled with Piers or Sherry will have a much easier and better possibility of winning. I don't doubt that you are able to beat a team of brain dead players using the weaker characters. But that would mean that those players are not as skilled as you. If everyone is on equal footing and played smart, the tiers would be very apparent. Which they are. Just because you can win a few times with a limited character doesn't make them good.
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"No man should fight any war but his own."
#10Keroro_2350Posted 8/26/2013 12:53:53 AM
Weaker characters like Ada Ex and Helena Ex requires a diffrent strategy to play with. I played with a few talented players and manage to kill them not because they are not as skilled as me but I mostly sneak behind them and blast them off. Another good strategy is that to assist your teammates,once,one of my teammates got stun lock by Sherry and ready empty her clip but I manage to interrupt her by quickshot my triple shot and a pipe bomb and my teammates kill her off.

Even if both team are filled with equal skilled player,sometimes you can outsmart them. I once join a match like this and most of the time, all of us are hiding and trying to find a good chance to attack and my team manage to win quite a few times even though my team consist of Leon,Leon Ex and Ada Ex which is me while the opponant are Jake Ex,Sherry and Carla.

I doesn't really like when the opponent team always run for the power weapon and 3 of them equip with power weapons which kinda ruin the fun and I only pick them up when I saw someone use them.

I really hate that this game doesn't have a report features to ban those players with Traning skill. It's really unfair, they would spam a buttload of pipe bombs or the power weapons which is ridiculous.