Would spell-based ripostes be too much?

#21The moonlight knight(Topic Creator)Posted 5/26/2011 4:23:09 AM
I'd like there to be a spell or some other way to unleash a burst of all your MP at once. And obviously its power is determined by how much MP was used. And maybe going with my R2 use idea, the R1 version of it would be a god's wrath kinda deal, but the R2 would compress it into a much stronger melee blast, but obviously not as quick to cast as ignite. But not as slow as soulsucker.
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I am snazzier, hot, hot rant. Warily slight as.
Croak rush, OK? Weirder, almighty make out. ::)
#22GoldenSquire757Posted 5/26/2011 4:33:50 AM

Or maybe that Iron skin spell they talk about could be have a secodary function that instead of adding defense and slowing you down it could lower defense but speed you up significantly.

#23The moonlight knight(Topic Creator)Posted 5/26/2011 4:38:01 AM
That's less a secondary function and more a reversed function. o_O

But at any rate, just in general I'd like for magic to try and get more of the benefit weapons have. That I feel is a huge problem magic has. With melee, you pick up a straight sword and you've got R1 horizontal swings, R2 to do a thrusting pierce attack, press R2 again for a second attack in the combo. Do a running attack, or a roll attack, or do a push. Two-hand it on a whim and unleash vertical slashes with R1 or horizontal powerful attacks with R2, and other roll/running attacks...

But with spells, which are fewer than melee movesets, you take one, cast it with rather similar catalysts, and it just does the one thing. That's it. It doesn't help that a good chunk of the spells are just offshoots of each other. Soul arrow, soul ray, homing soul arrow. 3 spells that are all like little more than different moves of one weapon. Firespray, ignite, flame toss, fireball...again. Warding, protection. Light weapon, enchant weapon, cursed weapon. Heal, recovery, regeneration.

I guess King's Field/Eternal Ring just spoiled me on magic...
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I am snazzier, hot, hot rant. Warily slight as.
Croak rush, OK? Weirder, almighty make out. ::)
#24ArayzielPosted 5/26/2011 5:14:03 PM
The concept of secondary abilities for spells is really cool. I liked the ignite spell, and I think it would be cool if they expanded the melee capabilities of mages in similar ways.
#25DuneManPosted 5/26/2011 6:08:44 PM
Kind of a tangent, but Blizzard noticed that people want melee magic and will include skill variants and passive buffs that allow for a melee-oriented approach. Should be fun. I'm sure we'll at least get something akin to Ignite again. Homing Soul Arrow was always nice too, as a silent ambush(assuming you were smart enough to face away from the approaching target to avoid hitting the wall).
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#26GrowshroomPosted 5/27/2011 3:17:49 AM
Thoughts for existing spells/miracles combined or altered with primary/secondary fire modes:

(Warding and Second Chance don't get any secondary effects)


Combined Soul:
+Primary - Soul Arrow (faster casting time)
+Secondary - Soul Ray

Homing Soul Arrow:
+Primary - Cast spell; will trigger automatically
+Secondary - Cast spell; will trigger upon using Secondary Fire again (switching weapons will switch to auto-fire mode)


Combined Fire #1:
+Primary - Flame Toss (faster casting time)
+Secondary - Fireball

Combined Fire #2:
+Primary - Fire Spray
+Secondary - Ignite

Firestorm:
+Primary - Flame pillars start close and move outward
+Secondary - Flame pillars start away and move inward


Combined Protection:
+Primary - Protection
+Secondary - Water Veil


Magic Weapon:
+Primary - Enchant Weapon (now stacks with LW)
+Secondary - Light Weapon (now stacks with EW)

Cursed Weapon:
+Primary - 50% raw damage increase; user is in Poison status for duration of spell
+Secondary - 70% raw damage increase; user is in Plague status for duration of spell


Stealth:
+Primary - Cloak
+Secondary - Demon's Prank (if used on a human opponent, increases his/her aggro radius)

Combined Cloud:
+Primary - Poison Cloud
+Secondary - Death Cloud

Acid Cloud:
+Primary - regular cloud attack
+Secondary - reduce durability of equipped items in exchange for a Scraping Spear effect on all attacks


Soul Lust:
+Primary - Soul Sucker
+Secondary - Soul Thirst

Relief:
+Primary - Area of effect 50% mana and HP boost
+Secondary - Fully recover touched ally and give them a 30 second 50% damage boost


Divine Providence:
+Primary - Evacuate
+Secondary - Banish (God's Wrath radius and wall-piercing properties)

Divine Covanent:
+Primary - Hidden Soul (now overrides any visible status boost effects)
+Secondary - Rapture (replaces Resurrection; attempts to summon the nearest Blue Phantom soul signs)


Combined Heal #1:
+Primary - Heal
+Secondary - Heal + Antidote

Combined Heal #2:
+Primary - Recovery
+Secondary - Recovery + Cure

Regeneration:
+Primary - Regen rate increased to 5% max HP/sec
+Secondary - Regen rate 2% max HP/sec; applies to surrounding allies


Anti-Magic Field:
+Primary - regular effect, 30 second duration (20 MP cost)
+Secondary - field now drains enemy mana (70 MP cost)

God's Wrath:
+Primary - regular effect
+Secondary - charge a preemptive blast; casting God's Wrath while charged in this manner reduces the cast time by 75%, but also reduces the damage greatly.
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#27EWGFPosted 5/27/2011 9:10:00 AM
I think what they need to do is make some serious adjustments.
Defensive auras need to last indefinitely, but be more subtle (except ones that could arguably be buffed like Regeneration). Second Chance needs to be entirely removed from the game. Running off to recast very OP auras that can't be answered by everyone (notably Warding) is fundamentally worse then just having an uphill battle with a more subtle aura.

Examples:

1) Warding 2.0:
- Lasts indefinitely. Provides 40% physical damage mitigation (down from 66%).

2) Regeneration 2.0:
- Lasts indefinitely: Provides 2% total HP regain per second (up from 1%).

3) New magic defense aura:
- Last indefinitely: Provides 40% damage mitigation from Fire/Magic damage.

A secondary function would be simple. A faster cast costing much, much more MP. Aura swapping in combat seems like a cool idea... especially if Auras come at a high premium in terms of how much they are relative to other spells and they're all good enough to use. People will agonize over which to budget for... and which to use.

The same could be said for offensive auras with some slight changes. The game walked an incredibly perilous balancing trail with offensive buffs that scaled with weapon AR, that scaled with your stats, and that were simple static figures.
Offensive Auras should come at a costly premium. The power level for everything but Curse Weapon was decent.
I think more of the same "let them last longer/indefinitely, but make them more subtle" would be swell. Also... some more variety would be nice:

1) Curse 2.0:
- Lasts indefinitely. Provides 40% physical damage increase, and drains 1% life per second (cast must be successful, you must meet Talisman requirements).

2) Light Weapon 2.0:
- Lasts indefinitely: Provides a X% more magic damage, and scales with either Magic of Faith stat: which ever is higher.

3) Critical Weapon:
- Lasts indefinitely: Provides a X% more more damage in Ripostes/Backstabs and Counter Hits.

3) Blood Weapon:
- Last indefinitely. Has a chance to cause a vicious wound (1200 over 1 minute). Debuff will refresh is additional hits are landed.

Just a couple ideas.
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#28The moonlight knight(Topic Creator)Posted 5/27/2011 10:16:30 AM
Ooh, that looks pretty neat. It makes me want to come up with melee/alternate variants of spells like I was talking about now. @_@

Maybe I should try that. I have time to kill...


Acid Cloud
R2: close-range slower cast that will degrade equipment at 150% effectiveness of a normal acid cloud over the course of about 6 seconds after being hit with it.

Cloak
R2: Slightly reduced effect applied to surrounding allies as well.

Cursed Weapon
R2: 35% increased damage instead of 50%, but striking opponents with the cursed weapon will halve the HP drain you suffer and inflict the other half of the drain on the opponent you struck.

Death Cloud
R2: Close-range melee dispersion that does not linger in the air, instead turning the foe struck with it into a conduit of the plague that will infect their nearby allies with it for as long as the condition lasts in them.

Demon's Prank
R2: Close-range resonance blast that temporarily confuses the enemy struck into being unable to distinguish friend from foe; duration depends on power of the enemy. Costs 4 times normal MP cost.

Enchant Weapon
R2: Adds fire attack power instead of magic.

Fireball
R2: Weaker and with less stun effect but with a homing effect (think the projectile attack maneaters fire in terms of how well it homes in).

Fire Spray
R2: fire-breath attack that is obviously much shorter range but more powerful.

Firestorm
R2: Less eruptions of fire, but after the spell ends it enshrouds the caster in a fiery vortex for 10 seconds that reduces fire damage taken by 60% and mildly inflicts fire damage to anyone nearby.

Flame Toss
R2: 20% weaker projectile that moves 40% faster.

Homing Soul Arrow
R2: Slower cast, close-range attack that pierces the enemy with up to 5 beams of light that will protrude out the other side of the enemy to their left, right, behind them and both angles between diagonally, thus able to hit other nearby enemies, but 25% less powerful for a cost of 30MP.

Ignite
R2: 20% more damage close-range blast, however the damage is done over time for the duration of 10 seconds, setting the enemy on fire, mildly damaging friend or foe alike that is near them for this duration.

Light Weapon
R2: 40 second duration instead of 60, but the enchantment extends the range of your weapon through its pure magical power, though striking enemies with this expansion of magical power will inflict the attack power of only Light Weapon, not the weapon it's used on. (Like imagine a knight sword's blade extending to the length of a penetrating sword via magical energy, but if you hit only with that extra length, you're only hitting with light weapon, not the sword itself).

Poison Cloud
R2: Same as death cloud.

Protection
R2: Reduces effectiveness by 30%, but applies the defense boost to fire and magical damage as well.

Relief
R2: 3x MP cost, but will also add a passive MP (1 every 3 seconds) and HP (2 every second) regen effect for 100 seconds.

Soul Arrow
R2: Soul Ray

Soulsucker
R2: Soul Thirst
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I am snazzier, hot, hot rant. Warily slight as.
Croak rush, OK? Weirder, almighty make out. ::)
#29The moonlight knight(Topic Creator)Posted 5/27/2011 10:17:46 AM
Warding (Note: I think this should be nerfed from 70% to 50% physical reduction)
R2: 70% damage reduction, gives spell a darker coloration and higher-pitched winding noise accompanying it, raises magic damage taken by 50%. I think this is more appropriate since Tower Knight is so weak to magic damage. >_>

Water Veil
R2: 2x MP cost, but gives the water a purifying effect that will make you immune to poison and plague (even from clouds) for the duration; will not CURE such a condition if you already have it, however.

Antidote
R2: allies nearby are also cured, 50% higher MP cost.

Anti-Magic Field
R2: 50 MP cost, slightly longer casting animation, removes magic attack power from weapons for both the caster and anyone nearby for the duration.

Banish
R2: Enchants weapon with the power to destroy black phantoms, raising damage done to black phantoms with this weapon by 40%, for 25 seconds.

Cure
R2: 50% MP cost, greatly raises the body's own resistances to status effects for 100 seconds, with the resistances gradually falling back to normal over the course of that duration.

Evacuate
R2: 2x MP cost but enshrouds the caster in a protective aura that allows them to cast it without being interrupted or harmed.

God's Wrath
R2: Double power, but radius of effect is reduced to 90 degrees aimed in front of the caster instead of the full 360 degree blast.

Heal
R2: Recovery (which also means it doesn't take two miracle slots which I always thought was dumb).

Hidden Soul
R2: Half MP cost, half duration.

Regeneration
R2: +50% power, half duration.

Resurrection
R2: 150MP cost, revive nearby fallen blue phantoms if they JUST died. Very very small window of success to do this.

Second Chance
R2: 50% MP cost, gain 75MP back when it revives you.
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I am snazzier, hot, hot rant. Warily slight as.
Croak rush, OK? Weirder, almighty make out. ::)
#30NolocNoaxPosted 5/27/2011 12:18:57 PM
I would definitely love for magic to be beefed up :)

Also, I would mind a few ice spells thrown in the mix too.
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