What do you think of the theory that the Dark Soul is fragmented into humanity?

#1The moonlight knightPosted 11/4/2012 12:14:57 PM
I read that in some topic. Seemed really fitting. Unless I overlooked some crucial lore, it seems to me we get access to all the important major souls brought up in the intro...except the Dark Soul, which is pretty important since it's the name of the game. The shards of Gwyn's soul the 4 Kings inherited establish the concept of splitting a soul apart.

If this were the case, and all the bright/light/white souls are that of the gods, and the dark spirits called humanity we get are the new, strange, Dark Soul, this would sort of create an allusion to social classes. The gods keep their souls to themselves and rule over the others, while the Pygmy divides its soul into a seemingly infinite amount of tiny fragments: humanity.

This also seems like it would enhance the concept of the dark growing stronger as the fire goes out. Sure, from a plain standpoint, light sources departing means darker surroundings, but... If humanity is pieces of the Dark Soul, and humanity is fed into bonfires... It would appear to me that those fires going out, would then in turn free those fragments.

This also puts a disturbing spin on the Fire Keepers.

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/fire-keeper-soul

Soul of a long-lost Fire Keeper.

Each Fire Keeper is a corporeal manifestation
of her bonfire, and a draw for the humanity
which is offered to her. Her soul is gnawed
by infinite humanity


Soul of the Darkmoon Knightess,
Fire Keeper of Anor Londo.

A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity,
and held within their bosoms, below just a
thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity
that writhe and squirm. Her brass armor
serves to disguise this ghastly form.


This makes them sound like god-made containers to imprison large quantities of humanity. Considering what the DLC showed us regarding how humanity "going wild" can warp people, this also makes the Fire Keepers sound pretty messed up and twisted.


Speaking of, while gameplay significance for the pendant is clearly a prank, as was confirmed in an interview, I still hold that it has immense canonical significance. I believe Pendant is the canonical starting gift, and that it is the reason our character does not go hollow. I had this theory before the DLC, but then after reading Manus' soul:


he became the Father of the Abyss
after his humanity went wild, eternally
seeking his precious broken pendant.


While it seems a lack of humanity makes you go hollow, it also appears an abundance of humanity, along with offering significant power, also offers its own kind of hazard to one's mind and humanity, able to twist and warp someone.

Consider also that there appears to be a significant connection between the Abyss, and humanity (in fact the Abyss may just be another name for Age of Dark). We obtain a Silver Pendant, which keeps abyss sorceries at bay. At the very least Pursuers' appearance is blatantly akin to humanity. On top of this, in another King's Field-inspired game, Eternal Ring, people have been transformed into monsters and dragons, eventually losing their minds/humanity. You encounter one monster, however, still perfectly sane and human. He ponders if this has something to do with his pendant. That's all that's said on it. So Dark Souls may be sneaking a reference to this, especially since it also pops up in Shadow Tower Abyss, making it seem to be some From Software trademark.

With all of that pendant-related info in mind, it seems like a strong possibility the pendant has some significant power to ward off the gnawing madness humanity can lead to.

Perhaps the Dark Lord ending, if you lack the pendant, would just lead to becoming like Manus. But, with the pendant, who knows.
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#2The moonlight knight(Topic Creator)Posted 11/4/2012 12:15:57 PM
It would also explain why the darkwraiths drain humanity in the first place. If all humanity could be collected, the Dark Soul could be made whole again. I imagine that could be desirable, as it'd probably be immensely powerful.


Anyway I'm pretty tired so this probably turned out rambly and with holes in it. Oh well.
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#3PimpiiPosted 11/4/2012 2:43:05 PM
I don't know if he was the first to come up with it, but ENB's always pushed this theory. Have you seen his lore vids on this? I agree with the theory as well. It just seems to fit.

Interesting point about the firekeepers. The AL Firekeeper soul description seems to indicate that the Dark Soul is very volatile. It's always seeking to put itself back together into one whole. The Pursuers sorcery and the writhing, squirming amounts of humanity contained within Firekeepers confirm this.

It's also obvious that the power of the Dark Soul is too immense for some to cope with, especially when it comes to larger quantities of it. I'd say that's why Manus and the Oolacile inhabitants went crazy.

You speculate that the player can control humanity/the Dark Soul because of the pendant. I get where you're coming from with that, considering the the role of pendants in previous From games. But then why can the Firekeepers also control mass amounts of humanity without losing their sanity?

On a side-note, I hope Miyazaki will be involved in the development of the next Souls game. His recent interview seemed to indicate some uncertainty on that point.

And a question to you Moonlight: how are old you? Do you have a job? If so, why haven't you gotten better internet yet? I'd say that for someone who is so into Dark Souls, it's strange that you have yet to experience the full game. That being PvE + PvP, in my opinion.
#4aneed4peedPosted 11/4/2012 2:47:33 PM
The devs dont care half as much as the fans do about the story.
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#5shadowsofdawnPosted 11/4/2012 2:50:40 PM
aneed4peed posted...
The devs dont care half as much as the fans do about the story.


This.

I bet half of the stuff that we assume is part of the lore is stuff the devs never even though about.
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#6DAI MAJINPosted 11/4/2012 3:28:49 PM
The pendant has no effect per se. It's a metaphor for something you hold onto that prevents you from going hollow. Fond memories, a cause or mission.
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#7Hero_DunbanPosted 11/4/2012 3:31:01 PM
I like this theory of yours, good sir. Very much so.


However, it's likely truth that the devs just don't GAF.
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#8XerainPosted 11/4/2012 3:33:19 PM
I have no such pendant. The reason I don't go Hallow is because my soul is stronger than everyone else's. That's why the gods want to use it as fuel for their stupid fire.
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#9PimpiiPosted 11/4/2012 3:47:38 PM
Why so many obvious, smart-ass comments that don't serve a purpose?

It's pretty clear that the devs intention with the story was to make it minimalistic. So players could roleplay, and use their own imagination to fill in the blanks.

Just because they designed it that way, doesn't mean they 'don't care' about the story.

The pendant, besides being a bit of a joke, was also intended to serve this purpose. Players having fun with it, making memories trying to figure out what it means, even though there was no 'actual' meaning.

DAI MAJIN posted...
The pendant has no effect per se. It's a metaphor for something you hold onto that prevents you from going hollow. Fond memories, a cause or mission.


REALLY!?
#10SSJPabsPosted 11/4/2012 4:04:31 PM
I have little doubt the devs have a basic story idea but only fill in details on a "I think that sounds cool, let's throw it in!" basis. Here are some disjointed thoughts:

As to the theory itself it seems to work pretty well. I believe Gwyn/Izalith/Nito started out as hollows like everyone else and only grew to their present size when they found the Lord Souls near the first flame. The Dark Soul was different than the others so it had to be divided. The Pygmy is only pygmy relative to the Lords and he remained as such because he split the Dark Soul. Fairly conventional in regards to what people think of the lore I gather. I don't know if it the Dark Soul seeks to reunite. Maybe Kaathe wants it to and sees humans killing each other in a human-dominated age as a way to do it.

We are told Anastasia was raised in her own village. That suggests that Firekeepers started out as normal humans or close enough it doesn't matter. I doubt they're "god-made" likely god-used. Humans who simply have a much higher tolerance for dark soul concentration. I think your PC has this potential as well but perhaps not all the way. You can only stock 99 humanity in your "soul." The whole thing with the Firekeepers sounds like they have to go through some special event to become Firekeepers.

I've wondered. When we run into Artorias he is killing an Oolacile resident. One of the bloated head enemies. If the Oolacile residents had their humanity enraged by the Abyss and Manus, and Artorias is covered in the Abyss power, why is he hunting his own side? Is it a reaction to his already having a fire-soul or lord soul fragment? Does the fire-soul of Artorias (the same that Ornstein, Smough, Ciarian have I assume) function in this manner like a bonfire? Is Artorias burning Abyss to make his regular fire-soul go out of control?

Also note, the silver pendant has the Artorias crest on it, but I think it was only carved onto it when they gave it to him in Anor Londo to fight Abyss magic. When and why did Anor Londo have cause to research anti-Abyss objects? If the Pygmy sat out the wars with the dragons, when would they have encountered it? How could they know it would work if they made it specially for Artorias when the Oolacile disaster happened?

When you use the pendant it generates gold light. Like a bonfire? Does the pendant burn the humanity in the Abyss magic to negate it? Maybe. Maybe not, since I'm told Pursuers hovers outside the shield and then hits you when the pendant's power goes down. But it might be gameplay and story segregation.
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