how much hp is considered low for pvp at 120

#51Snipa_Wulf12Posted 11/27/2012 6:45:27 PM
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
Snipa_Wulf12 posted...
And a "good" dex faith build needs no more than 30 faith. Anymore is a waste.


I wouldnt go that far, sure a 40/30 split is better in general, but damn dog those 50 fai wogs and slb hit hard as ****, catch someone with one of those wogs and follow up with a balder sword slb r2 r2 r1 combo from the hitstun and even without crown of dusk thats a good 1900-2000 hp gone if they dont know how to toggle escape (and if they do you can still easily knock off a good 1500, with a wog > r2 > delayed wog combo)


Yeah but WoG can be pretty simple to dodge unless the person using it is very skilled which is pretty rare. And even though the buff is stronger, the build should still have a second plan of attack since people like to wait out buffs.

I'm not really a fan of the dex/fai build you posted for those reasons I just mentioned also. With the canvas talisman and ring of the first born you can still get some pretty good buffs at 30 fai and it also allows more spell variety when some of those points go into att to allow darkmoon blade, sunlight blade, and WoG, and GMB, and Gravelord great sword dance. Or pyromancies in the weapon hand. My build also has a shield for blocks on it too although I see yours had DWGR which works just as well if not better.
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#52Silent_AlarmPosted 11/27/2012 6:47:20 PM
I would consider 6 vit to be low.
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#53LodissPosted 11/27/2012 6:47:23 PM
As long as you use Rof ap you only need 32 vitality to get about 1500 hp. And 30 end for 160 stamina. That's not vit gouging. And I'm not personally saying you need 1800-2000 hp, although I do have one character with 1921.

What I'm saying is that 1100 isn't enough. Are people intentionally not using Rof ap because they think it makes them special unique snowflakes? That's insanity. Even if you have base vit, the equip load and stamina increases alone make it the absolute best ring in the game, IMO.
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#54AnorBrandoPosted 11/27/2012 6:48:09 PM
You can have 2000+ health and lose most of it (or all) based on (1) mistakes that were your fault and could have been avoided, or (2) a superior opponent.

So if you make a lot of mistakes and generally get hit more than you should, extra HP are essential as a buffer. But if you know what you're doing and can dodge most/all of the attacks, you can get by with lower HP.

Obviously the higher, the better, but the topic really should be "How much HP should a true DS warrior NEED at any given time, so he'll win more than lose?"
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#55AnorBrandoPosted 11/27/2012 6:50:32 PM
Sorry that came out incorrect.

"What is the MINIMUM HP a true DS warrior needs at any given time, so he'll win more than lose?"
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#56Dex_PyromaniacPosted 11/27/2012 6:53:30 PM
Snipa_Wulf12 posted...
Yeah but WoG can be pretty simple to dodge unless the person using it is very skilled which is pretty rare. And even though the buff is stronger, the build should still have a second plan of attack since people like to wait out buffs.

I'm not really a fan of the dex/fai build you posted for those reasons I just mentioned also. With the canvas talisman and ring of the first born you can still get some pretty good buffs at 30 fai and it also allows more spell variety when some of those points go into att to allow darkmoon blade, sunlight blade, and WoG, and GMB, and Gravelord great sword dance. Or pyromancies in the weapon hand. My build also has a shield for blocks on it too although I see yours had DWGR which works just as well if not better.


Other than by Jemoai, not a whole lot of my WoGs have been dodged. The key is to have the talisman out at ALL times (hence why i dont use a shield amongst other reasons, if i dont have talisman or pyro flame off handed i would just 2h anyways lol) and to use them sparingly, while also doing wog cancels while at it.

Most people whip out a talisman/pyro flame randomly mid fight, and that gives away the element of surprise, which is EXACTLY what you need. Its also why I dont like to use a silver knight spear on my dex pyro builds, because I prefer 2hing it, and when I 1h it good players will simply know im just gonna throw a combustion out there.

And I personally am not a fan of buff builds (like switching to right hand bow lol), only time I go 50 faith is when I use divine weapons and barely meet str/dex requirements for either claymore or balder sword.
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#57clubber42Posted 11/27/2012 6:53:46 PM
shadowsofdawn posted...
Dex_Pyromaniac posted...
clubber42 posted...
Great thread btw. The ironic thing about it is that all the people saying 1500hp+ cant have certain builds with that amount of hp, or the build is severly gimped. Good dex/faith requires 40/50 respectively. Show me 1500 hp on that build, and ile show u a flawed build or a slvl 140.


http://mmdks.com/c70


Damnit I was just about to post something with the same exact stat distribution. Ninja'd!


Both of your builds are flawed, and reach the bare minimum requirements of 1500 hp. I run mor the pyro build only 14 str and 19 att.

Its simple. One must subtract from vit for more raw power. Raw power wins most of the time, and furthermore raw player ability wins most of the time... 1200 hp or 1800, if ur good u can beat down either.

2200 hp... Geeezus, how anoying is that. Chaos zwei days all over again. God i miss the simplicity of dens souls curse weapon. Yes, in that game EVERYONE had 1500 hp.
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#58Dex_PyromaniacPosted 11/27/2012 6:56:12 PM
clubber42 posted...

Both of your builds are flawed, and reach the bare minimum requirements of 1500 hp. I run mor the pyro build only 14 str and 19 att.


Do point out where my build is flawed please
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#59Dex_PyromaniacPosted 11/27/2012 6:57:57 PM
hak145 posted...
im still waiting for you and all you vit gouge(1500 and above) ***** to recognize that vitality that high is only used because you need to compensate for your lack of common sense when it comes to pvp.

lrntonotbebackstabbed.


Organized pvp =/= random pvp

Fighting randoms, as I said already, anything above 10 or maybe 15 vitality is a complete waste, since 98% of randoms will be bad enough to not even land a hit on you. Fight one of the guys in fight club and you will quickly realize that 1100 health gets eaten up rather quickly.
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#60nmbuserPosted 11/27/2012 7:03:23 PM
I said 1800 is great, not a bare minimum. People can't read a single sentence these days.

Heres why vitality over 1500 is good:

Its fun to not have to rely on dodging as your sole means of winning a fight
2v1 and 3v1 exist, and got dammit people get backstabbed all the time. SADLY people still use the hornet ring a lot which will make most BS go 900+ damage and all parrys 1k +

Sure you could run 800 HP and do nothing but ninja flip with a spear, childs mask, cloranthy ring, grass crest on the back, 0 poise and 5% equip burden but thats not fun in my opinion.

Also not everyone pokes with katanas / spears/ BSS. I mostly use strength weapons so I need to whore as much health as possible.... same reason for optimizing poise
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