Be honest, is PvP 99% a waste of human productivity? What about single player?

#11VidmorPosted 2/2/2013 12:01:32 PM
The wiki has all the information you could ever want about invasions and soul ranges, with several topics on their forum rounding out anything that might be left unsaid. Individual skill takes a back seat until your gear reaches comparable levels to your invaders. With a little know how, it's not difficult to fully optimize your gear at lower levels, the SL ranges are pretty tight.

I knocked this game out after release working full time and going to school at night, so I'm sure you can do it champ.
#12R1masherPosted 2/2/2013 12:10:02 PM
arcnet posted...
Detsuaxhe posted...
Seriously, please stop making threads.


And who are you again?

R1masher posted...
Lol? Man, my head hurts after reading that... Lol?


Then don't.

Excuse my stalkers. They hail from some benighted land.


Ok? But I did. So you must be the king of benighted land... I'm not stalking you even a little bit, I made a comment in your topic, if I made other comments in other topics of yours I don't remember... honestly. Could you just block me or something?
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#13lucky_sharm19Posted 2/2/2013 1:11:39 PM
What an absolutely silly question. Don't most forms of entertainment in general qualify as a waste of human productivity? If we aren't working 9-5, studying for school, cooking meals, or doing chores around the house, is it wrong to spend time doing something fun, even if it doesn't benefit you at all in a practical sense?
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#14arcnet(Topic Creator)Posted 2/2/2013 1:35:45 PM
Playing video games is 100% waste of human productivity. But so what?


Well that's a grim view of productivity :)

Here, I will break it down for you... at the end of the day entertainment is just about the only thing we truly have to live for. But the question is are you entertained or not? If you are then you are doing something productive.

dantedeschain13 posted...
Just to throw this out there, are you sure you weren't playing with people who buffed or something? I just started PVPing and discovered Great Magic Barrier makes a joke out of everything (Dark sorceries included) so these normally high damage spells are doing nothing and it could look like I'm some crazy level (using that as an example). And what are your stats? To my understanding, Moonlight Greatsword ain't so hot if you don't have a lot of Int for it


I don't know. I have a lv90 something build that is mostly dex/int. More int since my weapons draw from it mainly and my bow is plenty sharp.

I thought Dark Sorcery was physical damage? Sure gives the invaders an upper hand if the buffs can make that big a diff. I used magic shield against Gwyndolin didn't seem to help. I think I found the Great one soon after but I can't imagine it making that much of a difference.

Vidmor posted...
The wiki has all the information you could ever want about invasions and soul ranges, with several topics on their forum rounding out anything that might be left unsaid. Individual skill takes a back seat until your gear reaches comparable levels to your invaders. With a little know how, it's not difficult to fully optimize your gear at lower levels, the SL ranges are pretty tight.


I don't intend to invest a lot of effort into multiplayer. I just can't afford the time and I have a feeling it will be impenetrable. But I would like to understand what From' is trying to do with it.

Well usually skill trumps equipment or whatever by a lot if multiplayer is going to be remotely enjoyable. And you'd expect for equipment to be balanced more or less. Or at least compared to SL.

The host in an invasion should have an advantage in their flasks, but truthfully an invader is probably going to use humanity to heal themselves given an opportunity. It seems like an unworkable system.

And its difficult to imagine finding any fun in invading players that you'd expect to die just like that for no reward. Unless that is not how most invasion play out?

I knocked this game out after release working full time and going to school at night, so I'm sure you can do it champ.


I've been playing it almost like a full time job for a month now. Never spent half this much time on a game, much less just to go from opening to ending.
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#15arcnet(Topic Creator)Posted 2/2/2013 1:40:46 PM
lucky_sharm19 posted...
What an absolutely silly question. Don't most forms of entertainment in general qualify as a waste of human productivity? If we aren't working 9-5, studying for school, cooking meals, or doing chores around the house, is it wrong to spend time doing something fun, even if it doesn't benefit you at all in a practical sense?


This was an angle I wasn't expecting. I don't know about you. But consuming media is some of the most productive stuff I ever do.

And to be honest I don't know that any of that stuff you mention is even productive. Just sounds like treading water / busy work to me ;)
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#16lucky_sharm19Posted 2/2/2013 2:02:40 PM
arcnet posted...
lucky_sharm19 posted...
What an absolutely silly question. Don't most forms of entertainment in general qualify as a waste of human productivity? If we aren't working 9-5, studying for school, cooking meals, or doing chores around the house, is it wrong to spend time doing something fun, even if it doesn't benefit you at all in a practical sense?


This was an angle I wasn't expecting. I don't know about you. But consuming media is some of the most productive stuff I ever do.

And to be honest I don't know that any of that stuff you mention is even productive. Just sounds like treading water / busy work to me ;)


If consuming media is productive to you, then why single out Dark Souls? It's fun for a great majority of other people, hence the popularity of this board and the creation of communities else where such as twitch.tv, wikidot, and youtube.

Anyway, in regards to the other stuff, you need to do well in school to get a decent job (which isn't to say that it's the ONLY way to get a decent job, but if you intend on getting a degree...), you need a decent job to make a decent living, and maintaining your home (if you plan on owning one) requires that you spend time and money making improvements. I thought most of that went without saying.
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#17arcnet(Topic Creator)Posted 2/2/2013 2:51:14 PM(edited)
lucky_sharm19 posted...
arcnet posted...
lucky_sharm19 posted...
What an absolutely silly question. Don't most forms of entertainment in general qualify as a waste of human productivity? If we aren't working 9-5, studying for school, cooking meals, or doing chores around the house, is it wrong to spend time doing something fun, even if it doesn't benefit you at all in a practical sense?


This was an angle I wasn't expecting. I don't know about you. But consuming media is some of the most productive stuff I ever do.

And to be honest I don't know that any of that stuff you mention is even productive. Just sounds like treading water / busy work to me ;)


If consuming media is productive to you, then why single out Dark Souls? It's fun for a great majority of other people, hence the popularity of this board and the creation of communities else where such as twitch.tv, wikidot, and youtube.

Anyway, in regards to the other stuff, you need to do well in school to get a decent job (which isn't to say that it's the ONLY way to get a decent job, but if you intend on getting a degree...), you need a decent job to make a decent living, and maintaining your home (if you plan on owning one) requires that you spend time and money making improvements. I thought most of that went without saying.


I understand :)

For most of us our job isn't productive. It's just a way of maintaining our livelihood. Which is just like eating food. You have to do it or you die.

If your job is personally productive you will probably do it for free if you could. In other words you do all of that stuff just so you can play Dark Souls or whatever. There are other reasons we do things, but most of them are just things we are evolutionarily hardwired to do. Stuff that bypasses our higher order thinking faculties.

That said the subject says 99% suggesting there is something productive going on to my mind at least even in the worst case scenario (there is also a question mark in there)

Question is are PvP'ers really getting anything out of it. Or are they just kind of vegetating, or just wasting a lot of time because they really enjoy that rare occasion when their random hookup makes up for all of the wasted time. Or is my experience just not representative. Because as I've said I don't see how my experience could be enjoyable for either party involved.

I still need to figure out if its possible my invaders are not on the (soul) level with me. It sure would be nice if you could at least see that screen with your character dressed up in the right hand pane only for other players :(

If you can't see that you can't even know their character's name!
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#18ZennouPosted 2/2/2013 3:24:55 PM(edited)
arcnet posted...
Question is are PvP'ers really getting anything out of it. Or are they just kind of vegetating, or just wasting a lot of time because they really enjoy that rare occasion when their random hookup makes up for all of the wasted time. Or is my experience just not representative. Because as I've said I don't see how my experience could be enjoyable for either party involved.


Yeah, they are getting actual enjoyment in PvP-ing, or they're able to get souls faster through PvP, or they enjoy the gameplay but they've beaten the game so many times that only actual players are interesting to fight anymore. You can tell which PvP-ers are just vegging out because they equip the Cat Covenant Ring, walk away and let their system run for a few hours hoping they get an occasional match against someone that doesn't hunt them down or dies to something else before killing them so they can get "free" souls.

For what it's worth, most people don't deal with the kind of "rare hookups" that you seem to suffer from. The occasional summon attempt won't work because either the crappy netcode moved them before your summon connected with them or because someone else summoned them first. But for the most part unless your personal internet connection is choppy things shouldn't be taking as long as you sound like they are.

I still need to figure out if its possible my invaders are not on the (soul) level with me. It sure would be nice if you could at least see that screen with your character dressed up in the right hand pane only for other players :(


It is possible. Pretty much any invader can invade up with no limit, but most can only invade 10 levels lower. The thing that might be tripping you up is that most people invading have maxed out weapons and/or armor with optimized stats so even if they're the same level as you, they can easily be far more prepared and capable than you. It's always fun starting a new character and getting invaded and slaughtered with Soul Spears or Dark Beads before you've decided to go get the Very Large Ember or reach the Giant Blacksmith in Anor Londo.
#19seyyjJPosted 2/2/2013 4:07:34 PM(edited)
arcnet posted...
Playing video games is 100% waste of human productivity. But so what?


Well that's a grim view of productivity :)

Here, I will break it down for you... at the end of the day entertainment is just about the only thing we truly have to live for. But the question is are you entertained or not? If you are then you are doing something productive.


Well I'd say you have very loose view of "human productivity", the way I see it, being productive is doing something that allows you, in the long term, to keep being entertained by which ever entertaiment entertains you.

But yes, PvP entertains me very much, otherwise why would I play it?

Dark Souls is unforgiving game. It can make you really frustrated and angry or the exact opposite. If you don't want to get good at PvP, then you really can't complain about invaders, better stay hollow then. If you can find some relaxed beginner level PvP company, that's cool but VERY unlikely. It doesn't matter soul level it is but rather your experience level.
#20Number4RocketPosted 2/2/2013 4:07:42 PM
Vidmor posted...
Individual skill takes a back seat until your gear reaches comparable levels to your invaders.


Only true for the weapons, and that's only if you're using like a +5 against their +15.