The club actualy has something obscurely unique about it. Big random chatter...

#1ReahThorolundPosted 8/21/2014 5:40:52 PM(edited)
Was messing about with AR values on pc to check stuff and I realized something odd about the club.

I'm not sure how many of you would have noticed, but the standard upgrade level of a weapon is a literal ''on the tin'' percentage increase. What I mean is, if you have a +7 weapon, its base damage will be increased by 70%, or 150% for a +15 weapon. A special weapon will be increased by 50% when maxed (cos +5 is max, obviously), and thus every one is originally comparable with a +10 weapon.

The club is literally the only weapon in the game that does not follow this rule (apart from non scaling crossbows). From +0 to +15, the club only gets a 109% increase, I've literally checked every single weapon, bows and all...

The club now is kinda pathetic with its AR lagging by 40 or so behind a reinforced club, and way more when you don't max your stats. Weird thing is, I was looking through the guide book and it was not originally this way. It has been nerfed, even though it was originally weak anyway.

It's strange though, most weapons on the standard path haven't been touched at all. I was skipping through the book briefly, and only found for example that the Moonlight sword has scaling buffed from A to S through patches, and the furysword had its fire damage nerfed slightly. The black knight weapons also had specifically the R1 attacks nerfed (tested on pc, and confirmed that the AR is essentially a lie for black knight 1HR1, as that's the attack AR actually represents), so that's a lot of ways they tried to keep weapons in check.

Also, all +15 crossbows now do exactly the same damage as +5 crystal versions did originally.

Also, something illusorywall pointed out which people may not have noticed... an enchanted club +0 has a higher AR than a +1 or +2. An oversight in patches I guess. I'm still surprised they haven't fixed the starting gift description for tiny beings ring. -_-

I dunno... I'm wondering what the point of the club is, I mean it has 130 less AR then reinforced club when lightning upgraded for Gwyns sake, and reinforced club has bleeding. Then again, I still can't justify the curved sword forward-R1 in PvE either. It's not like DkSII where backsteps have i-Frames... wouldn't that be awesome if the forward-R1 had i-Frames? Holy cow.
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#2cronotisPosted 8/21/2014 5:48:23 PM
Kind of odd about the upgrades being weaker. The Club isn't unique in terms of being out-classed by another similar weapons though. Short Sword, Spear, Scimitar, etc. are all in the same boat.

A lot of weapons/upgrades were tweaked in patch 1.05. I believe nothing had higher than B scaling in Dex for example, and even if the actual letter grade didn't change there may still have been a change in the numbers behind the letter. Also the BKGA had it's R1s nerfed, but the BK Halberd's R1s got buffed, and the BKS/BKGS weren't touched (iirc).
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#3ReahThorolund(Topic Creator)Posted 8/21/2014 6:22:13 PM
Wait, sorry, I thought the BK weapons in general were nerfed, sorry for misinformation which I detest. Looking back, it was the BKGA I tested for the nerf. Thanks for pointing it out!

I just find the club strangely unviable, unless I'm missing something. It's 140 lightning difference from a weapon with bleed and weighs 1 more unit, or 40/70 difference for standard. The blacksmith hammer isn't much better, but still not as bad. The scimmy and shortsword are only off by 10/20.
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#4ReahThorolund(Topic Creator)Posted 8/21/2014 6:39:30 PM(edited)
Yeah, I can't see any str/dex scaling rank changing due to leveling up weapon in the guide, but there's a couple c>a for enchanted which are impressive, lol.

Ummm... a couple had A for dex, PGS and Priscillas...


Whoah whoah whoah whoah. Grant has an A for dex in the guide? *Facepalm*, I'm chalking that to a mistake, cos I don't remember anything like that. The guide is missing enemy attacks too... tis not the... best thing to go by. :o
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#5KatoAiPosted 8/21/2014 8:24:08 PM
Reah, you're f****** helpful.
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#6hemphoarderPosted 8/21/2014 8:26:06 PM
Reah are you back to the real souls game?
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#7arkim44Posted 8/21/2014 8:35:59 PM
KatoAi said:
Reah, you're f****** helpful

Agreed.
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#8Shippu_XabunglePosted 8/22/2014 7:13:22 AM
The Club is an excellent early-game weapon if you buff Strength early on because of its A scaling - it's a swift weapon that scales with STR, simply enough, but it's only useful for like 45 minutes. Still, great for the Burg and Parish, when you're too squishy to use weapons like the Zweihander.
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#9ReahThorolund(Topic Creator)Posted 8/22/2014 4:53:08 PM
cronotis posted...
Also the BKGA had it's R1s nerfed, but the BK Halberd's R1s got buffed, and the BKS/BKGS weren't touched (iirc).

Ok, I've just tested this now. Using CE script, I took out all scaling of weapons and changed all the AR's to exactly 300 to test. I was attacking the zombies at the very eginning of the game, because they have lowest defense (10 in everything according to the guide). Presentation is a bit supurfluous but I copy pasted in for reference... guess only the BKGA was changed.

1HR1-[215] - Black Knight Greataxe
1HR1-[270] - Demon's Greataxe
1HR1-[270] - Dragon King Greataxe
1HR1-[270] - Greataxe

1HR1-[270] - Black Knight Sword
1HR1-[270] - Abyss Greatsword
1HR1-[270] - Claymore
1HR1-[270] - Man Serpent Greatsword

1HR1-[270] - Black Knight Greatsword
1HR1-[270] - Demon Great Machete
1HR1-[270] - Dragon Greatsword
1HR1-[270] - Greatsword

1HR1-[303] - Black Knight Halberd
1HR1-[303] - Gargoyle's Halberd
1HR1-[303] - Giant's Halberd
1HR1-[303] - Halberd
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